Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

I'm truthful enough not to answer that with "I am not a liar" Olivier...which is what you did.

Nope. That defines "reality". In any case, it's not what I mean by it.

Okay, so you admit you are a liar. You have to live with that.

hahaha look at you two now, fighting over this 'ultimate truth' endlessly, only because you are both more interested in your own egos satisfying themselves as being the 'one who understands and speaks about ultimate truth in the best way'.

you accuse me of peddling nihilism, but i clearly said i don't support any one philosophy other than non-duality, which is all inclusive, and therefore DOES include nihilism as much as it includes religion, spirituality, and all other philosophies.

so you should be able to see that it is only your personal issue of being against nihilism which makes you define me as peddling nihilism. ultimately, your only aim is to prove that you have a better understanding of 'ultimate truth' than me. if you want to think that, then go ahead. but being against nihilism obviously comes from a primitive, emotional side of you which needs to believe in something. haha.

the concept of non duality explains both your arguments away instantly. and that is not me trying to show i understand more than you, because i did not create the philosophy of non duality.

i do believe i understand the concept of non duality much better than you both, because both of you seem to try and argue that you know about it, but that everything i am saying is completely different. hahaha, if that is the case, woe is me, but i challenge you guys to find anything that i have said which is inconsistent with non-duality as a philosophy.

ps. in response to frank's stupid challenge earlier, 'create a scenario where there is no ultimate truth'. ok done. there is NOTHING. no, that is not the ultimate truth then, because there really is nothing. no you, no me, no existence, no ultimate truth, no anything. your current 'experience' is nothing, made up of a belief you have which you can easily switch off, in which case everything ceases to exist. there is nothing.

now, i am not saying that is the ultimate truth either (nihilism). i am saying it is plausible enough to be considered, and the only thing that prevents it is the belief in one's OWN EXISTENCE as definite. this is the final step which you and frank are unable to get past. non duality will get you there eventually, keep reading other non dualists if you hate me so much! haha.

It is not simply " this 'ultimate truth' " - this is a matter of an attitude to the world.
If we accept by definition that 'Truth is the absolute compliance with facts and/or reality, and/or fidelity to an original (personal beliefs) or a standard ('personal understanding'), whether one is telling the truth or is talking what is convenient to his scientific career or promotion in rank, or risk-free profit, is a matter of an attitude to the world.
The ultimate truth is when you are thinking that you are telling the truth to the best of your knowledge and skills ... notwithstanding whatever this might cause to your cloudless scientific career and/or non-risk profits ... and no matter whether it actually exists in the physical world or not - so far you believe that this is the reality in your personal understanding of the world ... and insofar you have not discovered any contradiction for its impossibility ... or possibility for non-existence ... or for being something else.
Thus for example the atheists don't know what has been right here, in the place of the SS, some 4.54 +/- 0.5 BN years ago, but they know for sure the age of the universe in seconds – that it has been 'created through evolution' by some highly disputable event the so called big bang, some 13.798 +/- 0.037 BN years ago.
I may not understand too much of cosmology, but as an IT I could say that if one has missing information about an event 4.5 BN years ago, there is no way for that one to have ever had more information about that very point for an event 13.8 BN years ago.

Not getting enough abuse in your idiotic Casino Universe thread, so you thought you'd come here to make a fool of yourself, Herald? Your English still sucks.

Yet you always seem to default to the most simplistic and mythic based reasoning.
Science is like nature, it doesn't give a **** what you "believe" nd newly "discovered" facts change "pet theories" all the time.
In my field the proof of continental drift caused many eminent geoscientists to just retire because their entire fact basis of" structural theory" had been tossed into the round file.

Its interesting now how the mathematics of gravity perches on the end of a factual abyss right now and theoreticians may also decide to "take an early retirement" should the proof of gravitons and primordial gravity waves be actual. Newton had a reprieve a few months ago when his "directly proportional to the masses of the two bodies" was strongly asserted by theory.

What Creationists do, isn't science. Its a fraudulent attempt to discredit some small piece of scientific evidence in a small corner of the entire field of science. All this is done , not to advance a counter theory, but to try to discredit a perfectly reasonable one that offends their Creationist religious based worldview.
So far, EVERY ONE of these bogus attempts have been debunked by some grad student on his or her lunchtime.

Now you're just making up **** as you go along. If you've got a counter theory or hypothesis and any evidence at all, why not present it.

CM, the nihilist who cared...

I see a whole new batcha Hallmark cards

Batcha means bitching? Bitch you?

Frank cannot argue without insults. I try to stay away from it most of the time.

a batcha= a batch of ( an attempt at expressing a certain quantitative amount of greeting cards)
Its American lazy slang.
Others include
Quarta= A quart of, as in a quart of milk

Loafa= A loaf of , as in A loaf of bread

Ah ok... I still don't have a clue what you mean.

"ahem,
The nihilist who cared" screams out for its place in the world of new greeting cards

I can argue without insults, Olivier.

Your arguments, however, are an insult to logic...so apparently you can't.

If you can, why don't you?

LOL. I take that as a compliment...

Honestly, if the universe and he and you and I and A2K didn't exist, why would CM care enough to lecture us all about it for so long?

This guy deeply cares... about nothing.

I do.

That's a lie.

That is an insult, Olivier.

Anyway...tell me the insult in my post immediately prior to this one.