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Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

Forums: Religion, General, Senseless, Yes, Semantics
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:13 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

All that there is concerning thoughts about the true nature of the reality of existence involving the possible element of the existence of a god, cherubim, angels and jinn are just that: thoughts.

Outside of that there is nothing that I know of about them.

They only exist in thoughts. They don't exist in the physical world.


You have seen enough of the universe to be absolutely sure of what you just said???
Absolutely.


And you guys call theists unreasonable and naive!!!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:23 pm
@reasoning logic,
The "how do you know" thing is boring, RL, and beneath you.

Except for things that are definitionally impossible (square circle and such)...I consider anything to be possible.

If you want to claim something is impossible...state it, and we can discuss it.



The balance of your post makes no sense to me.

If you want to make a statement...make it.

If you want to ask a question...ask it.

All I see is a jumble here, but I will try to respond to what you were trying to say but didn't.

There is a possibility that one thing...ALWAYS WAS.

There is no maker of it.

In any case, you keep thinking of a god the way theists think of gods.

Don't...or you will constantly be bumping into walls.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
There is a possibility that one thing...ALWAYS WAS


This does seem as it may be true to me. Maybe it is energy of some sort but for me to say that a God or something else extraordinary "Is" possible is a giant leap for me because I do not know if these things are possible, "They may be impossible.
Germlat
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
In my opinion, the simple aspect of giving the slightest consideration to the possibility of what we don't yet know, is a sign of intelligence. If not for that, where would the field of Microbiology be? Or so many other things for that matter.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
There is a possibility that one thing...ALWAYS WAS


This does seem as it may be true to me. Maybe it is energy of some sort but for me to say that a God or something else extraordinary "Is" possible is a giant leap for me because I do not know if these things are possible, "They may be impossible.


Anything may be impossible...which is to say, anything may be possible.

Not sure why imagining the possibility that "something always was...and that thing being the god" is such a leap for you, but it isn't for me.

I can, in fact, easily imagine the possibility of what we call the universe arising from nothing (a special kind of nothingness) that went from nothing to everything is a single POW! (Which science is sorta saying what happened.)

I am working from a position of not wanting a particular result...and allowing anything (except the definitionally impossible) to be possible.

Do you think you might be coming at the issue with a predetermined outcome in mind...even if the predetermined outcome is not one single thing...but instead, anything except one particular thing?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

Anything may be impossible


Is it impossible that you just read this and i typed it letter by letter?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:13 pm
@Germlat,
Quote:

In my opinion, the simple aspect of giving the slightest consideration to the possibility of what we don't yet know, is a sign of intelligence


Anything? or are there somethings that are just too absurd to give credible probability? We do not know if there are invisible elves doing frank in his ears but if i am not mistaking Frank said there could be a possibility of it happening.
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:45 pm
@Germlat,
Microbiology lagged centuries behind the discovery of single celled organisms. An Italian proposed a germ theory of disease in the mid-16th century--he was ignored. Anton van Leeuwenhoek first described "animaculea" which he had seen with his microscope in the early 1670s. John Snow proposed a fecal-oral transmission of cholera in 1854, but authorities rejected it as "too depressing," and pointed out that Snow could not show them the disease organism. Louis Pasteur showed conclusively that a microorganism was causing a disease in silk worms and saved the French silk industry in 1870. It was at that time that Koch came out with his four postulates for identifying the presence of microscopic disease organisms even if they had not yet been seen. Lister championed the drive for the use of antiseptics in hospitals and to get doctors to wash their goddamned hands, and that was not until the 1870s.

You have to hit people over the heads with evidence to get them to pay any attention. By the same token, when people choose to believe a thing, you can hit them over the head with the lack of evidence, and it doesn't have the least effect on them. Your attempt at an analogy is simplistic and naïve.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:48 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:

Anything may be impossible


Is it impossible that you just read this and i typed it letter by letter?


Anything MAY BE impossible. You may not be here...I may not. Everything you think is your past may have come into being one second ago.

ANYTHING may be possible...anything may be impossible.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:49 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:

In my opinion, the simple aspect of giving the slightest consideration to the possibility of what we don't yet know, is a sign of intelligence


Anything? or are there somethings that are just too absurd to give credible probability? We do not know if there are invisible elves doing frank in his ears but if i am not mistaking Frank said there could be a possibility of it happening.


It is my opinion that anything is possible.

You, for instance, MAY one day have a conversation about REALITY with me...and not bring up elves and fairies and unicorns.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:


It is my opinion that anything is possible.

You, for instance, MAY one day have a conversation about REALITY with me...and not bring up elves and fairies and unicorns.


Is this your way of saying that one day you will stop believing in the possibility of elves, fairies and unicorns existing? if so frank I will still occasionally bring up jokingly your past beliefs Laughing
Germlat
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 08:01 pm
@reasoning logic,
If nobody had ever contemplated the possibility that what we imagine exists..we would know nothing
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 08:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:


It is my opinion that anything is possible.

You, for instance, MAY one day have a conversation about REALITY with me...and not bring up elves and fairies and unicorns.


Is this your way of saying that one day you will stop believing in the possibility of elves, fairies and unicorns existing? if so frank I will still occasionally bring up jokingly your past beliefs Laughing


No problemo then, RL.

I do not ever do any believing.

So...I guess this means I will never again hear this nonsense diversion from you.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 08:30 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

If nobody had ever contemplated the possibility that what we imagine exists..we would know nothing


I think RL cannot imagine some possibilities...because he has initially excluded some things from consideration.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 09:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not ever do any believing.

So...I guess this means I will never again hear this nonsense diversion from you.


Guess what you want to frank
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 8 Mar, 2014 09:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Reasoning logic
Quote:
We do not know if there are invisible elves doing frank in his ears but if i am not mistaking Frank said there could be a possibility of it happening.


Frank
Quote:

I think RL cannot imagine some possibilities...because he has initially excluded some things from consideration.


You are almost correct Frank except for the imagining part. What a funny sight that is when I imagine it Shocked Why cant you just let go of the idea or possibility of invisible elves doing you in your ears?
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'm so glad the whole world doesn't think as you do.

If they did we'd be stuck in the cave-man days.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:47 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Can you prove that knowledge is impossible?

no, because proof falls under the category of knowledge, which is therefore obviously also impossible. however, if you can accept that proof can exist not as knowledge, but as experience, then yes 'knowledge is impossible' is continuously being proven in all human experience.

Quote:
If yes, you know something for sure, which is a contradiction.

as said before, no need to continue to point out idiotic contradictions, because you live afraid of investigating them.

as i have stated clearly, there is an apparent knowledge that 'knowledge is impossible', but that is equally as invalid as any other knowledge. however, the experience of all knowledge being seen as invalid, is not itself another 'knowledge'. this experience is the proof that knowledge is impossible.

Quote:
Therefore you can't prove that. You actually don't know if knowledge is possible or not. You just believe it isn't.

yes, you are correct. which proves my point. knowledge is impossible, only beliefs are possible.

see, it is only because you BELIEVE knowledge is POSSIBLE, that you keep believing many different beliefs, and defining some of them as knowledge.

in my case, i don't believe any beliefs, or any knowledge. however, seeing as that philosophy itself is a belief system, i can try and define it. so i call it non duality, as taught by countless others.

the only difference between my belief system and yours/frank's is that mine destroys all beliefs, leaving only one involuntary one: knowledge is impossible, nothing ultimately exists, essentially nihilism as you like to call it.
Quote:
We will enjoy our quest for knowledge, don't you worry. Even if the goal is elusive, the chase is exiting and fun. You enjoy your nihilism.

what you don't see is that your idea of nihilism is simply your mind defining a negative word for nothingness, because you don't WANT nothingness to be the ultimate truth. why not? because it destroys your individuality.

unfortunately, you are simply missing the entirety of life which is beyond individuality, and yet does not affect its appearance in any way. ie. i am enjoying my nihilism, as well as every aspect of my apparent individuality. you are only experiencing your individuality, and identify with it, causing emotional turmoil, quests for ultimate knowledge, blah blah. enjoy!


carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
frankie boy, try again
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Sun 9 Mar, 2014 02:02 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
you've got me confused with someone who is actually listening to you

sorry my mistake, i'll let your mother know tonight that you have a problem listening to people. she'll straighten you out, after i straighten her out.
0 Replies
 
 

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