Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

No, agnostics definitely have the logical high ground-
Wiki- "atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities"
For example Dawkins is an atheist, and Carl Sagan was an agnostic, which shows even prominent scientists can't agree among themselves who's right.

Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry was an agnostic, but he was open-minded enough not to ban religion from the show, so he has my respect..

Religion in Star Trek-
An alien 'god' demands Kirk worships him but Kirk replies-"Mankind has no need of gods, we find the One quite adequate" (OST: 'Who Mourns for Adonais").

The rebels on Magna Roma, a nearly perfect "Parallel Earth", seem to worship the "sun", which Uhura discovers is actually God's "son" Jesus. (OST: "Bread and Circuses").

In the wedding chapel on the Enterprise we can see a sort of altar and some religious symbols, among them a cross (OST: "Balance of Terror").

The computer M-5 states: "Murder is contrary to the laws of man and God" (OST: "The Ultimate Computer").

Dr. Ozaba quotes from the Bible- "In His hands are the deep places of the Earth. Psalm 95, verse 4." (OST: "The Empath").

Dr. Phlox says he has been to a Tibetan monastery and that he has attended a mass at St. Peter's Square. This is a most definite statement that religion still plays a role in the 22nd century (ENT: "Cold Front").

Spock, traveling back in time to save his own life, presents himself to his parents as a cousin making a ritual journey "to honor our gods". (TAS: "Yesteryear").

Vulcans, like many other races, believe in a spiritual place from which they as a people were born. Their name for this place is Sha Ka Ree ("Star Trek V").

McCoy in Wrath of Khan refers to God twice, and Armageddon once- "Logic? My God, the man's talking about logic; we're talking about universal Armageddon! You green-blooded, inhuman..."

Incidentally, just following up on this Star Trek quote-
The computer M-5 states: "Murder is contrary to the laws of man and God" (OST: "The Ultimate Computer"),

computers in other sci-fi/horror shows also sometimes display a spiritual insight.
For example in 'The Stone Tape" a hi-tec electronics team try to trigger a ghost into appearing by bombarding a haunted room with all kinds of sound and light frequencies, and at 1:20 in this clip the computer seems to be trying to issue a warning by printing out "...pray......soul.....prayer...."




Here's a still in case the vid won't work-



And for the record here's a still from another part of the show of the screaming ghost of the young Victorian maid-

I'm an atheist because the natural world, just as it is, is far more meaningful and beautiful than any concept of God ever conceived by Man. I see no need to downgrade the grandeur of the Universe by believing that it was created by something infinitely inferior to itself.

Very good outlook. Best I have seen, lately.

I agree. I've always had a positive view of Rosborne's general perspective.

Thanks

The feeling's mutual.

I have always found Roswell to be very articulate, and have wished i could express myself as well and as succinctly.

just to be different, i am going to slightly disagree with this, while still agreeing for the most part.

if the concept of god is simply the entirety of all existence, then god is that grand universe you are talking about, and does not need to be inferior to itself.

you may say that the 'concept' is still not the 'actual thing', but if people believe god actually IS everything, then there is no contradiction.

you may say then what is the point of defining it as god, if it is just everything. i would agree with that, and say that the battle between theism and atheism is just a matter of words. the concept of 'god' is no different to your concept of 'the grandeur of the universe'. both are simple concepts referring to the same thing ultimately.

The "battle," as you choose to characterize it, between atheists and theists is a good deal more than words. Theists would if the could, and do where and when they can, impose their "morality" on others because of their conviction that they are right, and that that is what their god wants. I know of no equivalent behavior by atheists.

I got a kick out of the assumption implicit in this threads title. It assumes that Theistic views are actually LOGICAL.

scoff scoff

You'll have to explain that fm... how is the thread title (which is a 'question' about two subjects 'atheists' and 'agnostics') an assumption about theists' views being logical?

To be fair I do kinda see what you're saying... but it's more about agnostics not wanting to let go of any possibility, not matter how absurd it is... and how that in itself is a waste of time and energy IMO.

ARE ATHEISTS IDEAS MORE ILLOGICAL THAN AGNOSTICS?

I read that as saying that BOTH are illogical POV's , but one is more illogical than the other.

Yep, you have a point... I believe I phrased it that way back in 2011 because agnostics believe they are being logical and to exclude that there may be a creator god is illogical... I personally think that agnostics shouldn't waste time and energy holding onto both possibilities and it is more logical to let go of the useless concept of a creator god... and get on with life, free from that concept.

Of all the thousands of historical figures, it's totally illogical to single out Jesus and say say "He never existed"..

What matters is if Jesus existed 'and' is the son of God. Then what really matters is if God can help with negative situations during life and offer a place to go after death... there is nothing logical about believing God can do either... it has to be based on blind faith.... doesn't it?

Nothing blind about it mate, Christianity WORKS..
Ex-bounty hunter Paul said- "I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want"- (Philippians 4:12)

Christians become part-God, part-Jesus by "mindmelding" with them-
Jesus said "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

"To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible"- John Glenn


"My Christian faith is my backbone"- Bear Grylls


"God makes his reality so obvious to us in his creation and in the little mini-miracles that happen everyday."- Rebecca St. James


"..as a Christian, thank God you bear that name....that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (1 Peter 4:16, Col 4:12)

You have faith in what some people say but not others, you have faith in some books but not others (it's arbitrary and based on faith in those who have faith in God)... whether there is a God and he interacts with the world and creates a place to go after death is based on faith alone... it's all faith... for the faithful that's fine... but without faith in God, life continues and you wouldn't notice any difference in everyday life... welcome to the life of an atheist.

Atheists place their faith in books written by scientists like that dickhead 3-times-married Dawkins, he's a typical jumpy, irritable uptight atheist..

Kirk atheist impression-

Why are you so dense?

Atheism is NOT about faith.

Atheists cannot place what they don't have.

Is that so hard to understand?