6
   

would we want to live for ever?

 
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2011 10:01 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:

Not wanting to live forever is no reason to not believe in afterlife =)

It would be like believing in god because you do not want to believe that you are alone (which is something a lot of people do, actually).


Well my point is this. Technically what christians are saying is that everyone is essentially immortal. Where you end up doesn't make a difference on your immortality. So if you end up in heaven, can you kill yourself? No, because you will exist for ever. From my point of view that would be hell.

So I personally don't see how we could exist for ever, there are just too many problems with it. Like how does one exist. On earth we require food to sustain our bodies which is energy. Well where does the energy come from to sustain your heaven body? Do you have to eat, do you expel waste? Do you just magically exist?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2011 10:32 pm
@Krumple,
Yes, it's a matter of magical thinking.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 12:29 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

So I personally don't see how we could exist for ever, there are just too many problems with it. Like how does one exist. On earth we require food to sustain our bodies which is energy. Well where does the energy come from to sustain your heaven body? Do you have to eat, do you expel waste? Do you just magically exist?
Where did the energy that created the universe in the beggining came from? If energy was continously being lost, then existence itself would be impossible.

I dont think we will ever find an infinite energy source, but we will find things that are pretty much that. Like the sun. If we could properly harvest its energy, all our energy problems would be solved for millions of years.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 01:12 pm
@manored,
Your right. Green energy must be a bad joke. Wink
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 02:45 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:
Where did the energy that created the universe in the beggining came from? If energy was continously being lost, then existence itself would be impossible.


Well from my understanding there was NO energy needed. Check out this video if you haven't seen it already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdvWrI_oQjY&feature=mh_lolz&list=WLDFA5349DBB472245

Lawrence says that the net energy needed for the big bang is zero.

manored wrote:

I dont think we will ever find an infinite energy source, but we will find things that are pretty much that. Like the sun. If we could properly harvest its energy, all our energy problems would be solved for millions of years.


But my point is, how would an ethereal person obtain energy to function? I think a lot of people who believe in ghosts or after life spiritual bodies neglect to think of this. I guess they claim that a spiritual body does not require energy but it can do stuff anyways. Not to mention they think that those spiritual bodies would also have networks of nerves in them as well. What do I mean by that? Well a spiritual body that is being sent to hell to suffer couldn't feel pain without nerves. So they would have to have a nervous system otherwise you wouldn't feel pain at all.

That just seems silly to me that you would have a spiritual body with the ability to feel pain or pleasure. Then on top of that, you retain all your memories? How, when memory is actually a physical thing retained in your brain. How is it that the spiritual body can retain memory? It wouldn't be able to because if it could then you wouldn't even need physical matter to remember anything but clearly that is not the case.

But I guess an even broader question would be, why create two completely different realms of existence then? Why create one where everything depends on physical properties to exist and then have another where nothing relies on physical properties? With that it doesn't even begin to answer if you would still require certain things, like sleep, or do you wear clothes? Do you have hair and does it grow? Or can you magically create any hair style you want at any moment? Why would you even need it then? Seems a little silly.
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 03:09 pm
@manored,
Manored asks: "Where did the energy that created the universe in the beggining came from?"
A s deep as that question may be, I don't think it needs to be asked, because no answer is possible.
Frankly, I enjoy the presumpton that energy is never eradicated; at most it is only dissapated or relocated. We can see--even, at least in principle, measure--energy, therefore we can formulate questions about it and its "behavior." But until we can observe reality as it was before the Big Bang there's no way we can even begin to formulate questions about its origination. Nevertheless, I'm not troubled by that fact. As a Buddhist of sorts I sense with considerable confidence that whatever that reality may be, it IS me (and you).
Only in that sense do I claim immortality.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 05:37 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

But my point is, how would an ethereal person obtain energy to function? I think a lot of people who believe in ghosts or after life spiritual bodies neglect to think of this. I guess they claim that a spiritual body does not require energy but it can do stuff anyways. Not to mention they think that those spiritual bodies would also have networks of nerves in them as well. What do I mean by that? Well a spiritual body that is being sent to hell to suffer couldn't feel pain without nerves. So they would have to have a nervous system otherwise you wouldn't feel pain at all.

That just seems silly to me that you would have a spiritual body with the ability to feel pain or pleasure. Then on top of that, you retain all your memories? How, when memory is actually a physical thing retained in your brain. How is it that the spiritual body can retain memory? It wouldn't be able to because if it could then you wouldn't even need physical matter to remember anything but clearly that is not the case.

But I guess an even broader question would be, why create two completely different realms of existence then? Why create one where everything depends on physical properties to exist and then have another where nothing relies on physical properties? With that it doesn't even begin to answer if you would still require certain things, like sleep, or do you wear clothes? Do you have hair and does it grow? Or can you magically create any hair style you want at any moment? Why would you even need it then? Seems a little silly.
Its simply not explained. Its like a book that has a part that makes no sense, but when the author comes and reveals that it actually makes sense, only he didnt include the explanation/part that would make it make sense in the book.

We could try and imagine a way through which a "soul" could exist, and go ahead and imagine exactly how it would connect and interact with the body, what it is made of, how it works, etc. We could imagine a soul that would make sense from a rational point of view... only there is no point to doing that since its all imagination, with no more reason to be true than anything else.

JLNobody wrote:

Manored asks: "Where did the energy that created the universe in the beggining came from?"
A s deep as that question may be, I don't think it needs to be asked, because no answer is possible.
True enough =)
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 06:12 pm
This very same question was posted on this very same site a number of years ago and the answers are probably still floating around somewhere in cyberspace if I only weren't too lazy to surf around looking for them.

So I'll point out the same thing that I believe I've already pointed out before: In mythology as well as speculative fiction, the granting of immortality is always a curse, never a blessing. God or the gods inflict immortality on people who have offended them, viz. the Flying Dutchman, Ahasuerus (the "eternal Jew") etc. etc. etc. The protagonists of these stories always have to expiate some misdeed before they will be allowed to die a blessed, peaceful death.

I think there's a lot of insight there.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2011 07:04 pm
In all (or most) of those works, however, there is an afterlife. The curse of eternal life lies in living forever in this world, and never moving forwards to the next, what was supposed to happen.
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2011 04:05 pm
@manored,
Yes, the "curse of eternal life" would be like not being able to sink into a deep sleep at the end of the day or not being able to blink. Gasp!
On the other hand, I like to think of "Eternity"as the essence of every changing moment, not as something that goes on forever and ever. To me its "essence" indicates that its existence cannot be denied. Its Reality is absolutely real (it's only our interpretations about it that may be delusional).
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jul, 2011 06:01 pm
@manored,
Not sure if that's germane. The point is that continued existence in this life (regardless of whether or not there is any other) has almost always been considered a curse rather than a blessing.
0 Replies
 
maryanne12
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 05:22 am
yes i want to live for ever because this world is so beautiful for with my family but its very painful that every one in this world will be dead after playing his or her role in this world
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 07:01 am
@maryanne12,
i think life should have an off/on switch that only we can use, only when we are thinking clearly, and it is completely up to us.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 03:50 pm
@hamilton,
Yes, a foolproof form of "responsible" suicide. Ideal.
Laura Linney, the actress just said on the Charlie Rose Show that she was happy for people who enjoyed "the privilege" of a long life. I agree and feel very sorry for the young men and women who die in our senseless wars.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 05:12 pm
@JLNobody,
well, my ideal life is you can remain at around 21 for your whole life, and only die, when you feel like dying. like when youve literally seen everything.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 05:13 pm
with a difficulty setting.
low- you are worshipped as a god all over the world.
high- you are hugging a suicide bomber.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 08:01 am
@hamilton,
I share that fantasy, except I'd prefer age 36.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 02:00 pm
@JLNobody,
well, anyway, thats my perfect life.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 02:02 pm
I don't want to live tomorrow.

Rap
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 02:05 pm
@raprap,
stop!
get away from that ledge! life is worth living, usually. i know it's bad, but you just have to get through it! please, dont jump!
 

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