what justifies a lie?

@hamilton,

If anyone other than me responds you are likely to be confronted with two basic schools of thought:

1) A lie is never justified. Truth is an absolute to which adherence is not optional

2) If a lie spares someone pain then it is justified.

Since I have a hard time accepting that #2 is realistic, I tend to favor #1.

1 Reply

@hamilton,

hamilton wrote:

what makes it the right thing to do when you lie?

You need to take a step back and ask, "Is lying right at all?". I think you are asuming that there are indeed instances where lying is right, but then again I could be wrong.

0 Replies

what justifies a lie?

getting away with it

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If anyone other than me responds you are likely to be confronted with two basic schools of thought:

1) A lie is never justified. Truth is an absolute to which adherence is not optional

2) If a lie spares someone pain then it is justified.

Since I have a hard time accepting that #2 is realistic, I tend to favor #1.

ever hear the saying "the easy way is not always the right way?

1 Reply

@hamilton,

Every person on this earth lies - most lie to other people multiple times daily (studies have been done on this).

The most common lies are told to yourself. Lies to other people are less frequent.

Why are people interested in the justification, rather than the consequence?

1 Reply

When a bird pretends to be injured, in order to lead a predator away from it's nest, is it lying?
If so, does this make lying a survival tool ?

1 Reply

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

Every person on this earth lies - most lie to other people multiple times daily (studies have been done on this).

The most common lies are told to yourself. Lies to other people are less frequent.

Why are people interested in the justification, rather than the consequence?

because they have conscience. we have an idea of what is good, and what is not good. or at least, i hope we do.

1 Reply

@wayne,

all actions are survival tools, in one way or another, for one thing or another.
yes. suicide is a survival tool, in some weird way that i dont know.

1 Reply

@hamilton,

A few thoughts: One may commit suicide in order to preserve his honor or that of people who are identified with him, i.e. family.. A soldier may sacrifice himself for the survival of his comrades.

0 Replies

@hamilton,

We tend to think that being truthful is as important as possessing the truth. I think that sometimes deception is beneficial. Would you tell a nazi storm trooper which way a Jewish escapee ran? And a major method of survival in in the animal world is deception-by-camoflauge.

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

We tend to think that being truthful is as important as possessing the truth. I think that sometimes deception is beneficial. Would you tell a nazi storm trooper which way a Jewish escapee ran? And a major method of survival in in the animal world is deception-by-camoflauge.

You could say nothing at all.

And does this deception in the animal world make a smooth transition into society? Is it really ever necessary to lie, especially since we do not have to struggle, per se, for survival (using pure physical strength), except in desperate situations such as war? Perhaps sufficient, but not necessary, and even that seems dubious.

Also in the instance of the Nazi and excapee, perhaps it is indeed moral to tell the truth or say nothing at all; what would need to be examined first is whether or not lying is moral or immoral, and, if so, when and where?

1 Reply

@Ding an Sich,

The instance of the Nazi and the Jew illustrates that there is no absolute morality. There's always room for situational ethics. One of the Commandments enjoins us not to bear false witness, but we all (perhaps that's why it was left unsaid) know that the general rule requires interpretation in terms of the particular situation. Sometimes it's ethical to lie.

2 Replies

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

The instance of the Nazi and the Jew illustrates that there is no absolute morality. There's always room for situational ethics. One of the Commandments enjoins us not to bear false witness, but we all (perhaps that's why it was left unsaid) know that the general rule requires interpretation in terms of the particular situation. Sometimes it's ethical to lie.

But why is it the case that there is room for situational ethics? What are your premises?

And the commandment "Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor." means exactly what it says; otherwise, if it were to allow for situational or consequentialist ethics, it might say "Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor unless P or Q or R,etc."

1 Reply

@Ding an Sich,

Again what truly defines the nature of "things" in the action is the function being served towards any given end...if the terms in the operational relation are inverse you may well have to inverse the rule/principle to achieve the same goal/effect (or shall I say the the very same rule)(form is relation not "thing in itself")...things are what they operate thus depending on context, and that of course, also includes moral and ethics...

...naturally there is no whatsoever any shadow of relativism in this assertion since in the same conditions you always achieve the same result...concerning Nature, Ontology and Metaphysics stands intact...

0 Replies

@hamilton,

I've heard the saying but how it applies to what I wrote is beyond me.

0 Replies

@JLNobody,

As Ding suggested, one need not lie to the Nazi asking about the Jew to meet an absolute moral standard about lying. One need only remain silent.

Such a lack of response would probably carry with it danger, but so would lying,

0 Replies

@hamilton,

a lie is never justified

0 Replies

@hamilton,

vikorr wrote:

Every person on this earth lies - most lie to other people multiple times daily (studies have been done on this).

The most common lies are told to yourself. Lies to other people are less frequent.

Why are people interested in the justification, rather than the consequence?

hamilton wrote:

because they have conscience. we have an idea of what is good, and what is not good. or at least, i hope we do.

This is what I meant. Many people think 'it is flat out wrong to lie'. These same people lie to themselves frequently, and to others most likely daily -never looking at either the hypocrisy, or the why.

People ask about the justification, and conscience, but I would say that consequence is much more relevant to ones conscience than justification is to an ideal.

2 Replies

@vikorr,

Wouldn't you say that a major difference is that people know when they are lying to others but not when they are lying to themselves?

1 Reply

what justifies a lie?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know