7
   

i have so many questions.

 
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 01:54 pm
@Fido,
Morals do not exist as facts, at least not as measurable things. They DO exist as definitional events, as social constructions or institutionalized social interpretations . This is part of what we mean by cultures.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 10:23 pm
@Chights47,

north wrote:
hence why I don't think philosophy is for the very young

you don't even understand what life is to live , for yourself , a few more years of experience wouldn't hurt


Quote:
What do you consider "young" then. I really don't think that age has as much to do with is. I know plenty of people well into their 30's who aren't nearly as wise as some of the "young-ins" that I know. I actually like discussing things with younger people (such as Whyisitso) because they're actually more receptive to things and not as close-minded as some "old foggies". In philosophy, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong for we should never completely accept or deny anything, we should seek only to understand.


its about developing your own thoughts on your own , by yourself

research , read and think

but discuss with yourself first , develope a sound basis for your own thoughts BEFORE discussing with anyone else , it is necessary for your own independent thinking

its just necessary
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 05:25 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Morals do not exist as facts, at least not as measurable things. They DO exist as definitional events, as social constructions or institutionalized social interpretations . This is part of what we mean by cultures.
I cannot disagree with your thoughts as I understand them, but with the way you express them...

We have moral forms that are nothing in themselves, having no relation to reality as physical forms do... But through culture, the word the Germans would use to say civilization, we make social forms of our moral forms, so that a virtue, a moral form like justice is made into law... What we have to be concerned with always is whether the social form achieves the moral form, the goal, the good it set out to achieve...

I have a book of legal forensic quotations around here in which an English Jurist says justice is not the concern of the court, that they decide matters of law rather than justice, and follow Parlement whose job it is to decide justice... I think, that in a just society everyone makes justice his business, and cares to see it everywhere... To detach law from justice is to destroy it, and its value...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 05:45 am
@north,
north wrote:


north wrote:
hence why I don't think philosophy is for the very young

you don't even understand what life is to live , for yourself , a few more years of experience wouldn't hurt


Quote:
What do you consider "young" then. I really don't think that age has as much to do with is. I know plenty of people well into their 30's who aren't nearly as wise as some of the "young-ins" that I know. I actually like discussing things with younger people (such as Whyisitso) because they're actually more receptive to things and not as close-minded as some "old foggies". In philosophy, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong for we should never completely accept or deny anything, we should seek only to understand.


its about developing your own thoughts on your own , by yourself

research , read and think

but discuss with yourself first , develope a sound basis for your own thoughts BEFORE discussing with anyone else , it is necessary for your own independent thinking

its just necessary
What life IS, because it is an infinite might as well be told by the very yound as the very old... We all have our version of it, and it is the same thing for all of us... We literally share the same life springing from the same point of origin, and no one has it all or can see it all...

North... I would say not to discuss with yourself... As was once said, that you are known by the company you keep, so keep with good company... You cannot help but be yourself, so fear not to step out of your shoes and into bigger ones... Become Socrates if you can handle the pessimism... Become Nietzsche if you can handle the insanity... Philosophers are the most unhappy, and loneliest people on the planet... You have to ask; for whom do they do it since in their own days and lives so many of them seem so unable to relate to others, especially to women... I can see that youth may impress the girls with mighty muscles and daring do, and that age may well want to impress the ladies with the power of mind... There is a limit to intellectual development that once exceeded nearly puts people beyond all human contact and emotion... Life; the Well lived life is the object of philosophy...

The young may seek philosophy as a refuge from the storms of emotions, but in the storm is the all seeing eye... You have to ride into it, drive on, get picked up and crushed or washed up drowned... The perspective of philosophy is always too static a perspective on life to know truth, because life is dynamic and not static... You have to see motion while in motion...
0 Replies
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 07:36 am
@north,
Wouldn't this be a form of research? I believe that this would be more like first-hand experience which is, generally, the best and fastest way to learn. It also requires you to think and by asking the question first before providing any thoughts, Whyisitso will be able to read the responses, thus thinking of a rebuttal for idea's that he/she doesn't agree with or understand. Even if this is their first encounter with these type of questions (which I doubt) they have satisfied the criteria that you have stated about researching, reading, and thinking before participating in the discussion.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 10:51 am
@Chights47,
well, im sure there are more credible resources than us...
0 Replies
 
deepthot
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 06:21 pm
@whyisitso,
Greetings, whyisitso

You ask: What is the meaning of life? The meaning of life is to pursue and embrace Goodness. It has many forms. such as: Beauty, Kindness, Truth, Liberty, Fellowship, Love, Authenticity, Friendship, Responsibility, etc.
Happiness may follow from your quest to pursue Goodness, especially if when you wake up each morning you decide to be happy that day, and also if you remind yourself to think a happy , cheerful thought, or two, during the day. Happiness also results as one approaches a goal one has long worked for, so throw yourself into some worthwhile, noble activity that is challenging to you, and put in over ten thousand hours developing a skill for it. Then give yourself away! Donate proceeds to a good cause. Volunteer to serve the needy. Express your artistry freely.

You ask about the materialism of this (and perhaps past) generations. It follows from ignorance. When people are enlightened and wise, they are aware that the value of systems, norms, rules and regulations is to result in developing social trust and to systematically make production more efficient. [Efficiency can be measured in kilowatt-hours-per-year; and this is a cosmic accounting system which ought to be the basis of, the standard behind, a universal currency.]

The production - which consists of goods - and services (such as entertainment, nursing, food-serving, cooking, etc.) - has value only to the extent it is effective. To be effective is to enhance quality of life, to serve toward the maximizing of human well-being, for the most people.

So material, and wealth (true wealth - not the mere shuffling around of paper) is useless to us unless it gives us quality-of-life: more leisure, more love and companionship in our life, good health, good friends, good company, and other blessings of that nature. When people understand this, and know that efficiency and productivity - and material goods - are valuable only as they result in effectiveness, only insofar as they make for an increase in planetary human well being .. then their will be less materialism.

As Arthur Jackson points out in his recent booklet entitled How to Live the Good Life: A User's Guide for Modern Humans, it is the set of beliefs we hold that makes us moral and ethical. If we have stupid, self-defeating ideas we will not progress. We are then liable to put short-term goals over long-term benefit. We are liable to value greed, to be corrupt, to seek power over others. Instead seek to have a good character. Honor and respect every individual. Study the writings in Ethics of Marvin C. Katz, Ph.D.

Treasure your individuality. Know that we are all in this together; and "what really helps you, helps me. And vice versa." We stand or fall together. Be inclusive as to who you consider to be in your in-group. Extend you Ethical Radius until it includes more and more people. Empower people 'from the bottom up' rather than waiting for a 'trickle-down.'

I hope this has been helpful and that it speaks to your concerns.




hamilton
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 06:27 pm
@deepthot,
that is a good answer.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:38 pm
@deepthot,
What purpose would all that crap scout talk serve if the opposite was n´t also true ?
If being good was the norm certainly you would n´t notice it !
Thankfully the second law of thermodynamics is on your side...praise the "devil" you are not out of a job... Laughing
0 Replies
 
deepthot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2011 01:50 am
@whyisitso,
Greetings, whyisitso

Have you read this book which just came out five months ago? http://www.amazon.com/How-Live-Good-Life-Modern/dp/1432767704/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312353964&sr=8-1It's entitled HOW TO LIVE THE GOOD LIFE by Arthur Jackson. It will stimulate your mind.

You ask why this generation is so materialistic. I believe it's due to ignorance. I'll tell you why.

Let’s discuss materialism for a moment. Many enlightened people argue that systems have some value; and that the value of systems is to make production of material goods more efficient. [Efficiency can be measured in kilowatt-hours-per-year. And, incidentally, this is the basis for a global accounting system which ought to be the standard behind a universal currency.]

The production - which consists of goods - and services (such as entertainment, nursing, food-serving, cooking, etc.) - has value only to the extent it is effective. Are you aware of the difference between efficiency and effectiveness?

To be effective is to enhance quality-of-life, to serve toward the maximizing of human well-being, for the most people.
So material, and wealth (true wealth - not the mere shuffling around of paper) is useless to us unless it gives us quality-of-life: more leisure, more love and companionship in our life, good health, good friends, good company, and other blessings of that nature.

When people understand this, and know that efficiency and productivity - and material goods - are valuable only as they result in effectiveness, valuable to us only insofar as they make for an increase in planetary human well-being .. then there will be less materialism.

As Arthur Jackson points out in his recent paperback entitled How to Live the Good Life: A User's Guide for Modern Humans, it is the set of beliefs we hold that makes us moral and ethical. If we have stupid, self-defeating ideas we will not progress. We are then liable to put short-term goals over long-term benefit. We are liable to value greed, to be corrupt, to seek power over others. Instead seek to have a good character. Honor and respect every individual. That is one of the first of the ethical principles derived from a new approach to Ethics. Study the writings in Ethics of Marvin C. Katz, Ph.D. [To find links to them, just Google in that name, and check out the top five or six listed there.]

Here are some further ethical principles which if you take them seriously will help you discover the meaning of life. Treasure your individuality. Do work you love to do. Aim for excellence. Know that we are all in this together; and keep in mind that what helps the next person, if it really helps him, also helps you. We all do better if we ALL do better. We stand or fall together. Be inclusive as to who you consider to be in your in-group. Extend your Ethical Radius until it includes more and more people. Empower people 'from the bottom up' rather than waiting for a 'trickle-down.' As you do this life will become increasingly meaningful – and you may even find that you are happier too.

I hope this has been helpful and that it speaks to your concerns.






hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2011 09:33 am
@deepthot,
you may or may not be interested to know that whyisitso is no longer on this forum. just saying, but if you look at his last post, then you'l see it was a few months ago.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2011 12:19 pm
@deepthot,
...all that crap is self evident...the reason why I don´t like to talk about it is because I am convinced the more you need to speak on it the more likely is the chance that you don´t really understand it...good deeds are self explanatory !

Acknowledging entropy as a natural part of our world is the very first step to fight it efficiently...ethics needs no more explaining as any other "operating system" it helps organizing our world because it naturally decays...any smart person can get a physical explanation or justification on Ethics and Moral without resorting to the tedious usual clichés of always...
0 Replies
 
 

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