Iran Judicial Blinding Postponed.

@fresco,

(I note the "eye for an eye" post has been withdrawn.)

@fresco,

I do believe in "eye for an eye" justice, especially in this case. But
I also worry about miscarriages of justice, which is basically why
I'd be against the death penalty. We've seen so many cases of innocent
people being imprisoned over the years. In the UK there have been many
miscarriages of justice, especially concerning Irish people. I cant help but
think a lot of these wrongly convicted people would be dead now if the UK
had the death penalty.
But in this case, his guilt is beyond doubt, so I don't blame the girl for wanting
retribution. But If I thought he could be locked up for life, that he would
die in prison, I could probably live with that.
The trouble is life in prison can mean as little as 12 - 15 years here in
Ireland and the judiciary here are way to soft on violent crime, I suspect
the same is true in the UK, so I would not be satisfied with a life sentence
in this country knowing the scumbag would be out after 12 or so years.
Which is why "eye for an eye" justice appeals to me, because I have no
faith in our justice system.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

The argument against "eye for eye" justice is that it puts the "executioner" on the same "moral level" as the criminal.

3 Replies

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

The argument against "eye for eye" justice is that it puts the "executioner" on the same "moral level" as the criminal.

I agree.

Although I surely empathise with how the young woman feels.

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@fresco,

OK, what would you consider appropriate punishment if
this was done to your daughter?.
And!! would you trust your justice system to deliver that
appropriate punishment?.
It's easy to sit on the fence and issue one-liners.

Quote:

The argument against "eye for eye" justice is that it puts the "executioner" on the same "moral level" as the criminal.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

Of course that I would want "an eye for an eye", but it can be argued, with a clearer head, that it is the exercise of such individual passion which gave rise to the incident in the first place ! "Justice" must logically be the province of the dispassionate "I's, that is "the state".

1 Reply

@fresco,

Quote:

Of course that I would want "an eye for an eye"

WELL SAID.

Quote:

but it can be argued, with a clearer head

When could you start looking at your daughters face
with a "clearer head"?

Quote:

that it is the exercise of such individual passion which gave rise to the incident in the first place !

Do not agree, it was not "passion" provoked this attack, it was his upbringing,
his culture. He was brought up to believe that this is how you treat women.

Quote:

Justice" must logically be the province of the dispassionate "I's, that is "the state".

You must be joking!! Out of touch judges, uninterested lawyers. It's the
lack of passion that is ruining our justice systems and hence our societies.
The justice systems, in the UK & Ireland anyway, are heavily biased
in favour of the accused. While the poor old victim is barely involved
in the proceedings and has little or no say in the sentence.
The accused gets all the benefits of the law and a lot of them know
exactly how to play it, while the victim is left to try and pick up the
pieces of their life.
Can you even imagine what it's like for a victim of violence, like this girl
or a rape victim or the parents of a murdered child to see
their attacker getting sentenced and knowing that in a few years
because of the soft justice system we have
they might have to pass their attacker in the street.

Like I said, if I thought the guy who did this to the girl got life
and that meant he would die in prison, I could live with that.

2 Replies

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

The argument against "eye for eye" justice is that it puts the "executioner" on the same "moral level" as the criminal.

And so what? What if we don't feel like being morally above? That's over-rated, in my opinion. Not saying what I would do, but I know I'd want justice, if not revenge if this happened to my daughter. If I didn't get it in court, I'd probably arrange it myself. Something... not necessarily blinding him, but something. You have to pay for what you do.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

Quote:

When could you start looking at your daughters face
with a "clearer head"?

That the whole point...parties to to victim can't, so unless the rest of us want a vigilante culture we nominate "the state" to conduct impassioned justice.

1 Reply

@fresco,

Then what do you do when the state doesn't step up to the mark.
Forget "vigilante culture", what we want is Justice, plain and simple.
What would say with your dispassionate eye is the just sentence
for what this guy done to that girl?.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

(Typo above....state to conduct dispassionate justice)

The "just" sentence can only be a long prison term plus monetary compensation to the girl if he has the means. This will never satisfy the girl whose life he has ruined (unless of course she adopts the Christian ethic), but "social control mechanisms" cannot merely mirror "emotionality".

1 Reply

@fresco,

I'm going to throw acid in your face and disfigure and blind you.
I will ruin any chance you ever had of having a normal life,
you probably will never find love or have kids. But!! I'm going
to give you money to make up for it and I'll spend a few years in
prison for you.
WHAT A JOKE!!!
Oh, what would you consider a fitting prison term??

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

Look! Either we want to live in a society which condones violence by any of its members, or we don't. Its a question of weighing general ethical principles against individual emotions. Parties to the victim are unlikely to debate the issue, but it is perhaps incumbent on the rest of us to do just that.

1 Reply

@fresco,

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Smile

believe me I don't condone
violence in any way, but I do believe that if you commit a crime as
heinous as this guy did, well you've gone to far, you've crossed a line
and all your rights, like that of your victims, are revoked. Now like
I said if I thought the courts would uphold justice, well that would be
fine. For instance if I was told this guy would die in prison, I could
live with that.
Anyhow lets hope neither of us ever have to face this for real, I honestly
wonder would you stick to your principles then.
Oh! you never answered my question, if this was your daughter or even
as a ordinary citizen what would you consider an appropriate prison term.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

Quote:

Can you even imagine what it's like for a victim of violence, like this girl
or a rape victim or the parents of a murdered child to see
their attacker getting sentenced and knowing that in a few years
because of the soft justice system we have
they might have to pass their attacker in the street.

That's the beauty of the system, ECY, you don't have to pass the attacker on the street.

That's precisely the time for a person to exact their own justice. That attacker won't pass another person on the street.

This never fails. It a fail proof system. One only has to look at Iraq and Afghanistan to see that.

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@Mame,

Quote:

Not saying what I would do, but I know I'd want justice, if not revenge if this happened to my daughter. If I didn't get it in court, I'd probably arrange it myself. Something... not necessarily blinding him, but something. You have to pay for what you do.

Now that's our Mame!

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@fresco,

Sure, qesas could be committed. And for some, it would feel great. But what would this really do to the perpetrator long term? Would it at all change his primary reasoning for his crime?

The best punishment I can think of would be to send him and his victim to live on the same block somewhere in San Fransisco...

1 Reply

@thack45,

Good points !

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@eurocelticyankee,

Regarding prison terms etc, I don't think incarceration as important as long term community service in an eye hospital or similar.

0 Replies

Iran Judicial Blinding Postponed.

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