Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?

@OmSigDAVID,

It is consciousness analyzing brain, but this leads to definitions of it.

But a brain is required to write a theory of brain does not mean that writing is the predicate of consciousness, merely that brain is the predicate for writing a theory of brain. But both brain and mind are aspects of consciousness.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

HOW have u ascertained this information ?

It is an idea that is just as likely as the traditional idea, and it does not dispute the facts we have, unlike the traditional idea.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

It is consciousness analyzing brain, but this leads to definitions of it.

But a brain is required to write a theory of brain does not mean that writing is the predicate of consciousness,
merely that brain is the predicate for writing a theory of brain. But both brain and mind are aspects of consciousness.

WHAT evidence do u have that there is NO consciousness other than in a brain ????

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

And of course, David, you are convinced that, because of your after death experience, there is consciousness without life? I call that private--as opposed to public--truth. I do not say you are wrong I just don't share it. It's not true to MY experience. But I appreciate how important this subjective truth is to YOU.

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

And of course, David, you are convinced that,
because of your after death experience, there is consciousness without life?

NO. U don 't get the point.
When the butterfly flies away from his (lifeless) cocoon,
the inert status of the cocoon means nothing to the happy butterfly,
its former inhabitant, nor to anyone else.

The death of deciduous teeth r of no importance
to the child from whose mouth thay have fallen.
U do not know that the whole human body is deciduous, not just the teeth.
Consciousness does not depend upon it for its existence.
(Its FUN to get out.)

I deny the EXISTENCE of the death of consciousness; death is a fraud.
U persist in the error of confusing a man with his human body.
U persist in the error of believing that when a human body
is thrown down in a hole and covered with dirt,
that THE MAN himself is down there,
that his consciousness has been extinguished,
because u believe that consciousness is dependent upon matter for its existence.

Large numbers of people have returned from the deaths of their human bodies.
I have met a lot of them. www.IANDS.org
It is not a big surprize any more.

JLNobody wrote:

I call that private--as opposed to public--truth. I do not say you are wrong I just don't share it.

I wish u good luck in getting out of your human body,
while it yet remains alive. See if u like it.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

WHAT evidence do u have that there is NO consciousness other than in a brain ????

None whatsoever. I am pretty sure that we can use the term meaningfully in other contexts as well, but it means distinguishing the term from other terms such as "memory" and "awareness".

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

WHAT evidence do u have that there is NO consciousness other than in a brain ????

Cyracuz wrote:

None whatsoever. I am pretty sure that we can use the term meaningfully in other contexts as well,
but it means distinguishing the term from other terms such as "memory" and "awareness".

Do u have evidence
as to whether "memory" and "awareness" exist or do NOT exist ONLY in a brain ??

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@OmSigDAVID,

No, no evidence. I am not sure where I stand on this. Still stuff to work out, and and wether or not it's a viable take on it remains to be seen.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

No, no evidence. I am not sure where I stand on this.
Still stuff to work out, and and wether or not it's a viable take on it remains to be seen.

It seems very unlikely that u stand ANYWHERE on this,
if u r not sure of it.

If u did stand somewhere on it,
then u woud be consciously aware of it; yes ????

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

If you start at the beginning of the thread and work your way through it I think you will get some idea of how I'm thinking. I really do not care to repeat everything, at least not now.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

If you start at the beginning of the thread and work your way
through it I think you will get some idea of how I'm thinking.
I really do not care to repeat everything, at least not now.

I did not request that of u, Cy.
That is a misunderstanding.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

No, you didn't. But you were suggesting that I don't stand anywhere on this, which just does not make sense considering the contents of this thread Wink

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

No, you didn't. But you were suggesting that I don't stand anywhere on this,
which just does not make sense considering the contents of this thread

No. U failed to understand me, Cy.

Lemme try again:

Cyracuz wrote:

I am not sure where I stand on this.

David wrote:

It seems very unlikely that u stand ANYWHERE on this,
if u r not sure of it.

If u did stand somewhere on it,
then u woud be consciously aware of it; yes ????

Get the idea ??????
My point is that if u STOOD somewhere, then u woud KNOW it.

Definitionally, u CANNOT have an opinion about anything
without KNOWING that u have that opinion.

How 's that ?

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I understood you. But I think you are neglecting the possibility that am considering various aspects of this, and that I have not yet reached any conclusions that I can present as my standpoint. That is not to say that I don't know where I don't stand, merely that I am trying to keep an open mind.

So I do stand somewhere, but I don't care to argue my standpoint very fiercly as I am aware that it might change as I recieve new information.

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@Cyracuz,

Cryacuz, let me understand you--I think I have a similar perspective. I am unwilling to argue vigorously on issues I am not sure about yet, i.e., either I havn't invested enough time in them to feel sufficiently knowledgeable about them or I've not invested enough time for my ego to have a stake in them.
On some points I will argue vigorously because I am either very confident in my positions or because I've invested much ego in them.
But there is the other category of motives: I WILL argue against some positions, not because I know the truth or even feel I know the truth regarding them. Nevertheless, I argue simply because (as most people do in these threads much of the time) I feel confident that their defenders are talking BS.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I understood you. But I think you are neglecting the possibility that am considering various aspects of this, and that I have not yet reached any conclusions that I can present as my standpoint. That is not to say that I don't know where I don't stand, merely that I am trying to keep an open mind.

So I do stand somewhere, but I don't care to argue my standpoint very fiercly as I am aware that it might change as I recieve new information.

NO. U said:
"I am not sure where I stand on this." THAT means that u stand SOMEWHERE,
i.e., that u DO have an opinion, but that u do not KNOW
what that opinion IS, which is an oxymoronic contradiction-in-terms.

Y did u not simply say that u have NOT DECIDED YET and therefore u have no opinion yet,
and therefore u do not stand anywhere yet on this particular point ?????

Is there a REASON that u cannot express yourself ACCURATELY ??????

NO ONE can have an opinion about anything
without KNOWING what that opinion IS.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

NO ONE can have an opinion about anything
without KNOWING what that opinion IS.

Obviously you have never met any specimens of the creature called human.

Is there a reason you get stuck on this digression instead of contributing to the actual topic?

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
NO ONE can have an opinion about anything
without KNOWING what that opinion IS.

Obviously you have never met any specimens of the creature called human.

Is there a reason you get stuck on this digression instead of contributing to the actual topic?

Yes: If the most BASIC & elementary operations of logic
cannot be successfully accomplished, then the results of these deliberations
can only be hopeless chaos, devoid of any merit,
exercises in futility.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Then think it through again, because this....:

Quote:

"I am not sure where I stand on this." THAT means that u stand SOMEWHERE,
i.e., that u DO have an opinion, but that u do not KNOW
what that opinion IS, which is an oxymoronic contradiction-in-terms.

...is bullshit. Maybe I'm awaiting some information. Maybe I'm considering more than one possibility... "I am not sure where I stand on this" is a very common phrase. It is possible to be aware of something without knowing completely what you think of it.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

"I am not sure where I stand on this" is a very common phrase.

Does THAT have probative value, demonstrative value, Cy?????
Do truth and accuracy depend upon popularity of belief???? How "common" the belief is ?

When people all believed that the world was FLAT,
did the Earth have a DIFFERENT SHAPE than it does now?????? Please reveal this information.

Cyracuz wrote:

It is possible to be aware of something without knowing completely what you think of it.

HOW can u think of anything WITHOUT knowing that u think of it, and WHAT u think of it ??????? Please explain.

It has escaped your attention
that u r saying (simultaneously) that u DO and u DON'T; that is a full frontal attack against simple logic.

According to U, that is OK.

In defense of REASON: I don 't think it is.

David

1 Reply

Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?

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