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Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?

Forums: Philosophy, Science, Cosmology
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 02:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
R u alleging that the sought after Unified Field Theory DENIES the Big Bang ??
I am not aware that it does.


No. Just that it might shift where big bang theory fits in. Now it is seen as the most comprehensive cosmological models, but scientists are learning new secrets about reality all the time, and I think it would be naive to assume that the big bang theory will never be obsolete.

Quote:
Because matter is full of big holes; is that what u had in mind ?


If my eyes could detect light in x ray spectre many things that are solid to me at the moment would appear transparent. If my body wasn't heavier than air, I would be floating through it, perhaps unwillingly drifting upwards like a helium balloon. Wouldn't this change my perception of what is solid and not?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:59 am
@Cyracuz,
David wrote:
R u alleging that the sought after Unified Field Theory DENIES the Big Bang ??
I am not aware that it does.
Cyracuz wrote:
No. Just that it might shift where big bang theory fits in.
Fits into WHAT??
The Big Bang Theory (inferred from the observed expansion of the Universe)
IS the theory of the source of EVERYTHING in this Universe;
(i.e., matter & energy [which r the same thing, like ice and water] plus time & space, which continue to expand).
If I remember accurately: comprehended within ENERGY r:
the strong force, the weak force, gravity and electromagnetism.




Cyracuz wrote:
Now it is seen as the most comprehensive cosmological models,
U are aware that the Unified Field Theory is only a work-in-progress, not yet achieved, right ??




Cyracuz wrote:
but scientists are learning new secrets about reality all the time,
and I think it would be naive to assume that the big bang theory will never be obsolete.
To me, that seems an odd way to express it (meaning no disrespect).


David wrote:
Because matter is full of big holes; is that what u had in mind ?
Cyracuz wrote:
If my eyes could detect light in x ray spectre many things that are solid to me at the moment
would appear transparent. If my body wasn't heavier than air, I would be floating through it,
perhaps unwillingly drifting upwards like a helium balloon.
Yes; as we do when we swim in water, fully submerged.




Cyracuz wrote:
Wouldn't this change my perception of what is solid and not?
When I 've swum in water, fully submerged,
I 've had no illusions of being less than solid.
That did not occur to me.





David
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 08:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Fits into WHAT??


Into our understanding of what reality is.

Quote:
The Big Bang Theory (inferred from the observed expansion of the Universe)
IS the theory of the source of EVERYTHING in this Universe


Yes. It is like a crime scene. We see all this evidence, and from that we piece together what is likely to have happened. We do this by means of comparing the evidence of these unwitnessed events to other events that we have wintessed, and from this we form a picture of what might have happened.

Any explanation of the unknown will always be merely a new combination of old concepts. The evidence may never change, but our way of combining conceptual association is subject to constant change.

A thousand years ago it was called God and creation. Now it's called Big Bang Theory and The Human Species Has Its Collective Head Up Its Ass.





Cool
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:01 pm

Quote:
Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?


obviously

where else would consciousness come from , really ?

consciousness comes from the constituents of elements
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:07 pm
@north,
Quote:
where else would consciousness come from , really ?


This is not proof. It's just you saying that you don't have the imagination to come up with something better.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:11 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
where else would consciousness come from , really ?


This is not proof. It's just you saying that you don't have the imagination to come up with something better.


I see , yet consciousness depends on matter to manifest
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:13 pm
@north,
Prove it
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:18 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Prove it


easy

consciousness is devoid of water
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:33 pm
@north,
If it was you could not say that...

Are you even prepared to consider the possibility that "consciousness evolved from matter" is actually based on assumption, not facts?
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:58 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

If it was you could not say that...

Are you even prepared to consider the possibility that "consciousness evolved from matter" is actually based on assumption, not facts?


such as ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 11:52 pm
@north,
north wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:

Prove it


easy

consciousness is devoid of water
Will u prove whether water is conscious, or not ?
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 03:19 am
@north,
Read the thread.
0 Replies
 
existential potential
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 08:53 am
@Cyracuz,
What is the alternative then?

That consciousness is totally independent of the brain?

Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 10:12 am
@existential potential,
No. That consciousness defines the brain just as much as the brain defines conciousness.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 11:57 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
No. That consciousness defines the brain just as much as the brain defines conciousness.
HOW did u figure THAT out ??
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 03:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
What we call "the brain" appears to be a necessary physical condition of what we call "consciousness", but it may not be a sufficient condition. Note that a radio is a necessary condition for the production of "a programme", but not a sufficient condition. Indeed , that which produced the programme also produced the radio !
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 09:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
HOW did u figure THAT out ??


A brain is required to write a theory of brain. When we are trying to understand what the brain is, isn't that a case of consciousness defining brain?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2011 10:29 pm
@Cyracuz,
And, of course, we often experience consciousness defining consciousness.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 04:04 am
@Cyracuz,
David wrote:
HOW did u figure THAT out ??
Cyracuz wrote:
A brain is required to write a theory of brain.
R u informing us now
that WRITING is the predicate of consciousness ?

Is writing a condition precedent to consciousness ???????


Cyracuz wrote:
When we are trying to understand what the brain is, isn't that a case of consciousness defining brain?
It sounds like consciousness analyzing brain.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 04:11 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
What we call "the brain" appears to be a necessary physical condition of what we call "consciousness",
O, really???
Have u discovered whether trees or radio waves are CONSCIOUS ?

HOW have u ascertained this information ?






fresco wrote:
but it may not be a sufficient condition. Note that a radio is a necessary condition for the production of "a programme",
but not a sufficient condition. Indeed , that which produced the programme also produced the radio !
 

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