@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:I pointed out that we would not need to declare war in order to do that, and now you're saying if we "join the war," rather than saying if we declare war, or if we "invade."
My point is not and never has been that we are legally required to make a formal declaration of war. My point is that I consider it to be an act of war, and that such acts should be considered very carefully.
Quote:When i questioned that, you said we would incure the obligation if we declared war in order to enforce a no-fly zone.
Liar. You keep putting these claims about legal obligations in my mouth. It's pathetic.
Quote:You're trimming your sails to suit the wind, and that is intellectual dishonesty.
No, you are simply making up positions and ascribing them to me. At no point did I ever say a formal declaration of war was necessary.
Quote:As i have pointed out repeatedly, we don't have to declare war to do this,
And we didn't have to declare war to start the Vietnam war either, but it was still a war. I never made any claim about needing to declare war formally.
Quote:....and i reject your silly claim that enforcing a no-fly zone constitutes an invasion, which would oblige us "morally."
Duly noted. If you have any arguments that actually address my position about ownership of responsibility when we elect to no longer be a neutral party then I would love to hear it. To try (probably fruitlessly) to prevent you from making more of your famous straw men, here it is very clearly for you again:
I believe that when nations decide to use military force to intervene in another nation that they gain some responsibility for the outcome of the situation. I don't believe any such legal obligation exists (at least not that general of one) just that if we help them break their country that we should help them fix it, but that if we stay out of it we are justified in refusing to help them fix it.
What I would like to avoid is a repeat of history where we encourage rebels, make a no-fly zone but don't do enough to prevent them from being crushed anyway. My position is that if we encourage these rebels to fight we need to protect them, and if the no-fly zone wasn't enough we should be willing to do more.
If you have an argument against that, which is my actual position then have at it. Try to keep your deceitful straw men to a minimum.