cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 06:28 pm
@georgeob1,
They should have treated you guys to dinner with good wine.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 06:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It was the Department of Energy ... they don't do gratitude.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 06:35 pm
@georgeob1,
Oh?
Quote:
The mice loved it.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 06:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://www.colostate.edu/dept/coopunit/images/cutepmjm.jpg
This is one of the Preble Meadow Jumping Mice saved by George! Now about radio communications interference due to radiation in Fukushima Daiichi...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 06:45 pm
@georgeob1,
HA, I heard that Weston also had an interesting Rocky Flat story. They had unknowingly "back engineered" a U fluxby doing waste water analyses and coming up with the "formula". The DOE reassigned Weston to another site (PAntex I believe).
BUT at Nevada Test site, the pattern of Pu239 was easily seen as a source and dispersal pattern. AS far as I know the also havent done anything with it. I dont know why they dont use boracite exchange and resins and then just leave the canisters on site. Noone is gonna re occupy NTS (or Rocky Flat-unless ALlied Waste wants to expand).

_______________________________
PS HS, you should look up muromontite on the minerals data dot org site (called mindat). Its a very unique neutron generating 111/011 bifacial mineral where BeSiO8 is in direct contact w Uraninite . Whereever a lattice point of Be adjoins a U lattice point we have activity.The mineral is basically a neutron generator and then a reprocessor and Pu 244 source of . Its a fascinating mineral but, with all the apha around, its potentially a real killer. Most of it comes from Africa/Sweden and a teeny bit in US(That was my assignmentcough, cough)

I asked a health physicist friend about the pattern of Pu at Fukushma. She will look at some of the air data and soil data as it hits the web. If you find any of the soil data (as random walk or grid data) please post it up .K?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 08:09 pm
@Butrflynet,
Quote:
The records show that the water of the Kitakami river in Miyagi Prefecture rose by 11 centimeters about 49 kilometers inland nearly 3 hours after the earthquake.

The Tone river rose by 30 centimeters at a point more than 44 kilometers from the estuary.

The ministry believes the waves would have reached further upstream if all the floodgates had been open. 6 of the 9 gates located 18 kilometers from the shore were closed when the tsunami hit one of Japan's longest rivers.


Does this mean, for anyone who is an expert/knowledgeable, that the sea water reached that far or does it mean that the surge backed the normal flow of the river back that far?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2011 09:09 pm
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:
The plumbing leaks however do, and they're getting worse; some of that radioactive water tests at 1 Sv/hr and containment tanks and ditches are filling up fast. The robots have started arriving; there's electricity for remote monitors and batteries charges, but they have to be tethered to fiber-optic cables as radio wave communications are said to suffer interference from ambient radiation in the plant.

That datum worried me a bit - wouldn't it take runaway fission to produce so much interference? Even if things are so bad, why can't the robot operators switch to longer frequencies? There's got to be longer waves that get through any electromagnetic storm. Thanks for any information. Link and pictures:
http://www.technologyreview.com/files/60263/irobotB_x220.jpg
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/37164/page1/


I don't think the article is saying that radio waves "won't" work, just that they are giving the robots fiberoptic capability as a backup.

Quote:
All four have been equipped with fiber-optic tethers for communication, in case radio signals don't work in the plant's highly radioactive environment.


As for that "one sievert per hour" water, I hope that pumping it doesn't involve getting a human anywhere near it.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 02:36 am
Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:03am EDT

TOKYO (Reuters) - Seawater near the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex's No.1 reactor contained radioactive iodine at 3,355 times the legal limit, Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/30/us-japan-seawater-idUSTRE72T0IV20110330
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 02:58 am

Increased (slight) radioactivity in the air, attributable to the Japanese plant, was reported yesterday from Glasgow, Scotland.

http://breakingnews.heraldscotland.com/breaking-news/?mode=article&site=hs&id=N0282931301398745948A
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 04:51 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

As for that "one sievert per hour" water, I hope that pumping it doesn't involve getting a human anywhere near it.

This is hard to believe but runoff from reactor 2 is outdoors, in a trench fast filling up, and the dosage is measured by a counter that only goes up to 1 Sv/hr.
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AF026C_JNUKE_G_20110329222704.jpg
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471904576229854179642220.html?KEYWORDS=radiation+japan
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:05 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

_______________________________
PS HS, you should look up muromontite on the minerals data dot org site (called mindat). Its a very unique neutron generating 111/011 bifacial mineral where BeSiO8 is in direct contact w Uraninite . Whereever a lattice point of Be adjoins a U lattice point we have activity.The mineral is basically a neutron generator and then a reprocessor and Pu 244 source of . Its a fascinating mineral but, with all the apha around, its potentially a real killer. Most of it comes from Africa/Sweden and a teeny bit in US(That was my assignmentcough, cough)

I asked a health physicist friend about the pattern of Pu at Fukushma. She will look at some of the air data and soil data as it hits the web. If you find any of the soil data (as random walk or grid data) please post it up .K?

The rock details are too advanced for me - what little I know is numbers. On the Pu detected it's a bit worrisome that while the isotopes are published within the hour (as I posted before, -238, -239, -240) their ratios aren't given anywhere I've checked; concentration is same as for leftovers from pre-1980 tests.
Quote:

Hunt for Plutonium
Workers are still probing for the source of the plutonium found Monday at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

Possible scenarios:
1. Some of the plutonium found is believed to have been there before the nuclear crisis started and is unconnected to the current situation. Tokyo Electric Power Co. says three of five samples are "equivalent to the fallout observed in Japan when the atmospheric nuclear test was conducted in the past."
2. Heating of spent fuel rods
A likely source of the plutonium, experts say. As it decays, uranium in fuel rods produces some plutonium, which might have been borne aloft by steam in spent-fuel containment pools, or in water that splashed out as workers doused the spent fuel rods to keep them cool.
3. Partial melting of fuel in reactors 1 or 2
Decaying uranium in the fuel rods of reactors 1 and 2 would also produce plutonium. A partial melting in No. 2 is already considered the likely source of the strong radiation readings there and could also account for the plutonium. However, experts say that if partially burned fuel accounted for the plutonium found on the site, radioactivity levels would likely be much higher than they now are
4. Partial melting of fuel in reactor No. 3.
Reactor No. 3's mixed-oxide, or MOX, fuel contains plutonium, and any breach in the reactor's containment unit might account for a plutonium release. Government and company officials say they don't have indications of such a breach, though, and experts say this is among the least likely scenarios.


Nothing heavier than Pu-240 so it's probably (1), or water runoff. Doesn't look like aerosol so far - which would be truly terrible news. The isotope ratios would provide some guidance on which of the above, or combination thereof, applies. Will update when I find that info. Source is same link I posted above.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:54 am
@McTag,
The jet stream picked up the original radiation release - by now it's circled the northern hemisphere twice. Nobody outside Japan has to worry about it:
Quote:
...we detected the first arrival of the airborne fission products 131-I, 132-I, 132-Te, 134-Cs, and 137-Cs in Seattle, WA, USA, by identifying their characteristic gamma rays using a germanium detector. The highest detected activity to date is <~32 mBq/m^3 of 131-I.

This link was also posted some pages back - the university researchers involved keep updating their data in real time: http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.4853
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 08:47 am
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Okay. No problem.

Felt I had a duty to let you know that the bodies have been finally estimated at just under 29,000; most will never be recovered. It's back to business as usual in Japan in spite of the continuing Daiichi radiation leaks (amplified by hysterically inaccurate media, mercifully parroted by a single poster here). The French plutonium experts who got there with Areva's president also think no aerosols were involved (if that result holds it's the best I've heard all week). So any objection I stated on page 8 about capitalizing on the disaster when I joined this thread no longer applies - thanks for your considerate reply, though! I'm going to Europe for an energy project in China and hope to get to Japan as well - there will be a lot of rebuilding to be done and I'll be interested in reading what it was you have in mind. Most of all I hope that this anti-nuclear-energy madness subsides soon. It bears repeating that the Richter 9 earthquake never damaged the plant, the giant wall of water that came in its wake caused all the problems.

This satellite picture is taken 3 minutes before the earthquake registers on land; it's false-colored (eg the lights colored red are those that subsequently went out) but not otherwise doctored. That dark hole east of Japan is the giant cavity on the surface when the column of water sank suddenly as the ocean bottom fell off under it; that's why it took a while until tsunami waves started rolling in. This is a much-abused word, but...awesome!
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/336/cache/space137-japan-earthquake-lights_33697_600x450.jpg[/img]
P.S. separately found out that the trenches filling up with radioactive water near the plant are covered, and the water will be pumped out to barges. Sorry.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 09:31 am
@High Seas,
HS et al, Thanks for keeping us informed about the Japan earthquake-tsunami, and the radiation leaks and their effects. You guys have been doing a yeoman's job explaining the day-to-day exposure reports in Japan and around the world. It's much appreciated.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 12:35 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
This is a much-abused word, but...awesome!


Jesus, you're a dummy, High Seas. The word is not abused. The word is used in exactly the fashion you've used it.

Stop repeating these old canards. [I guess that's like telling you to stop breathing.]
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 01:57 pm
Very long update from IAEA today.

http://www.iaea.org/press/?p=1852#more-1852

Excerpts:

1.Current Situation

Overall at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the situation remains very serious.

(click link to read more)

2. Radiation Monitoring

The majority of the recently measured radioactivity levels in drinking water are being reported below the levels established by the Japanese authorities which are 100 Bq/L of I-131 for infants; 300 Bq/L for adults and 200 Bq/L of Cs-137 for infants and adults.

...

Two IAEA teams are currently monitoring radiation levels and radioactivity in the environment in Japan. On 29 March, one team made gamma dose-rate measurements in the Tokyo region at 8 locations. Gamma-dose rates measured ranged from 0.02 to 0.19 microsievert per hour, which is within or slightly above the background.

The second team made additional measurements at distances of 32 to 62 km, at directions North to Northwest from the Fukushima nuclear power plant. At these locations, the dose rates ranged from 0.5 to 6.8 microsievert per hour. At the same locations, results of beta-gamma contamination measurements ranged from 0.05 to 0.45 Megabecquerel per square metre.

Based on measurements of I-131 and Cs-137 in soil, sampled from 18 to 26 March in 9 municipalities at distances of 25 to 58 km from the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant, the total deposition of iodine-131 and cesium-137 has been calculated. The results indicate a pronounced spatial variability of the total deposition of iodine-131 and cesium-137. The average total deposition determined at these locations for iodine-131 range from 0.2 to 25 Megabecquerel per square metre and for cesium-137 from 0.02-3.7 Megabecquerel per square metre. The highest values were found in a relatively small area in the Northwest from the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant. First assessment indicates that one of the IAEA operational criteria for evacuation is exceeded in Iitate village. We advised the counterpart to carefully access the situation. They indicated that they are already assessing.

(click link to read about food contamination details)


And here's a link to the IAEA youtube channel where you'll find video of today's briefing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IAEAvideo
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 02:06 pm
Updates from NHK:
Quote:

TEPCO chairman apologizes

The chairman of the Tokyo Electric Power Company has apologized for trouble and anxiety caused by radiation leaks from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Tsunehisa Katsumata on Wednesday was speaking to reporters in Tokyo for the first time since problems at the plant surfaced. The firm's president, Masataka Shimizu, was hospitalized for hypertension and dizziness on Tuesday night.

Katsumata said he feels particularly sorry for local residents who've had to evacuate or refrain from going outside while coping with the impact of the quake and aftershocks.

Katsumata admitted that the company has not been able to cool the reactors, and pledged maximum efforts to stabilize them. He added that the No.1 through 4 reactors would eventually have to be shut down for good.

Katsumata also said his company is preparing to compensate in accordance with the law for damage caused by the radiation leaks.

The chairman apologized for the inconvenience caused by the company's rolling blackouts to cope with chronic power shortages since the March 11th quake and tsunami.

He said the company will do its best and work closely with the government to minimize or even avoid rolling blackouts this summer.

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 16:37 +0900 (JST)


Quote:

Areva CEO arrives in Japan to help at Fukushima

The CEO of French nuclear reactor maker Areva says she will meet with Japanese officials to improve the situation at the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Speaking to an NHK reporter on her arrival at Narita Airport, near Tokyo, on Wednesday afternoon, Anne Lauvergeon pledged full cooperation. She brought along a team of experts, the first such group to arrive from France since the outbreak of the incident.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company and the Japanese government asked Areva -- one of the world's largest nuclear energy firms -- for technical support to remove highly radioactive water at the Fukushima plant. The contaminated water has hampered restoration work.

France is the world's second largest operator of nuclear power plants.

Soon after the accident in Fukushima, France sent Japan mobile radiation monitors, generators and protective clothing.

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 20:32 +0900 (JST)


Quote:
Edano: Cover may be used to stop radiation

Japan's top government spokesman says the government and experts are considering whether to cover the reactor buildings at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant with a special material, to stop the spread of radioactive substances.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters on Wednesday the experts are also examining the use of a tanker to collect irradiated water at the plant.

Edano said a variety of options are being studied to minimize radioactive contamination in areas around the plant, and to prevent health hazards.

He said working-level discussions are underway on the new measures and a political decision will probably be sought at some stage.

He said the whole situation is not at a point where he can responsibly say when the reactors will be brought under control. He said it will likely take a considerable amount of time before the fuel rods in the reactors and spent fuel pools cool down and stabilize.

Edano said monitoring for plutonium contamination may be extended to areas outside the plant compound since trace amounts of the element were found in soil on the plant grounds.

Edano said consumption and shipping restrictions on farm products will be lifted once their safety is consistently confirmed.

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:56 +0900 (JST)

0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:26 pm
There's an amazing time-elapsed graphic of earthquakes near Japan starting March 11th and running for days. The size of the ring indicates the strength of the quake, the color indicates the depth of the quake.
http://www.japanquakemap.com/
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:35 pm
@littlek,
Thanks. Fascinating. One can see the plate boundary and the concentration of activity just north of the Tokyo "bend" in the boundary, and readilly visualize the geological activity that drove all this.

The plant would have been better located on the western, Sea of Japan shore. Still it has held up better than did the cities, railroads and highways where so many thousands lost their lives.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 06:30 pm
Quote:
In an article in The Guardian yesterday, Richard T. Lahey, former chair of nuclear engineering at Rensellaer Polytechnic Institute, in Troy, N.Y., was quoted as saying that the evidence he had seen indicated that fuel melted through the pressure vessel of reactor No. 2 at some point after the crisis began. He told The Guardian:

"The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell."

This morning, Lahey elaborated on his analysis for IEEE Spectrum, which he said had been accurately reported by The Guardian, but misinterpreted by some. (A careless read of the article suggests a new melt down at the plant, rather an analysis of what probably occurred early on in the crisis.)

Lahey says his analysis was based on the data sources seen by him and colleagues around the world, but that the information has been inconsistent and changes hourly. “It’s really hard to read the tea leaves,” Lahey says. “They keep blowing around… I may be wrong. I hope I’m wrong.”

However, his best take is that “all cores have melted, and it appears as though Unit 2 has melted through.”

His conclusion about reactor No. 2 comes largely from the amount of radiation in the water found there and the chemical contents of that water.

Flooding the building with sea water was the right move, he says. In a melt down, where the fuel escapes through the bottom of the chamber, the mix of molten metal—called corium, a buzzword for steel, uranium, zircolite, and other molten goop from the reactor—will vaporize the concrete and create dangerous radioactive aerosols. “The water will scrub out the radioactive aerosols” besides cooling the molten mass.

How long it will take to cool the corium beneath the vessel will depend on exactly how it escaped. If it melted a single big hole through the bottom of the vessel, it would pile up as a blob on the concrete. The blob’s low surface-area-to-volume ratio will make it hard to cool.

However, Lahey thinks there’s a chance that the corium escaped through narrow channels formed by the control rods, which in this type of reactor go all the way to the bottom of the vessel. In that case, the corium could have been extruded through the channels, forming something with more surface area.


LINK
 

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