High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 09:21 am
@Ionus,
As promised looked into it and it really depends on a number of variables in addition to prevailing winds, starting with altitude; what you could do is contact graph's source (see link posted in my reply to CI) and ask them to post their baseline background radiation on their site for comparison - it's not there now. I hardly need add you must write using your own name, current/former professional/academic/military affiliations. E-mail addresses are listed on link.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 09:37 am
I just looked up this factoid as the radiation measurement terms are confusing me as they vary and/or don't match in the media. Rightfully so, as there is changing terminology:

"Although some scientists use the older terms for radiation - curies, rems and rads - these units are being phased out in favor of becquerels (one radioactive event per second), grays ( a measure of energy of radiation absorbed), and sieverts ( a measure of how much harm the absorbed radiation has caused.)"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:16 am
@Ragman,
Thanks for that clarity; it was confusing to read current stats on radiation that is somewhat revised from the old system. At least they made it clear that any exposure was minimal and safe for humans - outside of Japan.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:17 am
@High Seas,
Just a quibble, since I suspect a typo rather than an error, but Sandia is not in Los Alamos. Sandia Labs are on Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, with Los Alamos at the town of the same distinctly to the north. Los Alamos national lab is a college campus compared to Sandia, by the way.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:28 am
@roger,
Sorry, was writing in a hurry. Of course you're right. My apologies.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:32 am
@Ragman,
I think you got this phrase from the article in yesterday's WSJ. The article was confusing and its author was as well in my view. A new collection of units for measuring radiation effects has indeed arisen over the past two decades, however, it doesn't represent any new knowledge or understanding over the old system. Both xyxtems, new and old attempt to deal with four very distinct forms of what we call radiation (photons or gamma, electrons or beta, neutrons, and helium nucleii or alpha), each with different penetrating ability, ranges of energy levels, ranges of influence and biological effects per event.

In general alpha particles and, to a large extent, betas don't represent a real hazard as long as their source is outside the body. This is because of their very limited penetrating power - they hardly get through our clothing or skin. However, if the source is ingested and deposited within the body they can be a real hazard (Thus the alpha radiation from the thorium in your smoke detector is no hazard, as long as you don't eat it). Neutrons have greater penetrating ability, but they don't last long and have a mean free path of only about eight inches from their source. Gamma rays or photons come in a very wide range of energy levels, ranging from those associated with radio or phone transsmissions to others millions of times more energetic associated with some forms of solar radiation and the decay of radioactive nuclides. All have a very great penetrating power - we live our lives bathed in a steady stream of gamma radiation that reaches us from the sun, penetrating the entire atmosphere of the earth along the way.

Al, forms of radiation follow an inverse square reduction in their intensity as one moves away from the source. (Double the distance from the source and the intensity is reduced by a factor of four).

Interestingly living in a city at high altitude (say Denver or Aspen Colorado) involves an increased exposure to solar gamma radiation comparable to the maximum legal exposure for a radiation worker. Moving to Aspen is far worse in that the exposure there to radon gas eminating from the granite in the surrounding soil involves a significantly increased dose in a particularly hazardous form (and in total probably greater than the doses received by the unfortunate citizens of Fukushima). Public health data from cities at high elevations don't reveal any measurable effect on disease or mortality (except that teatotalling Mormons in Utah are generally healthier than cigar smoking boozers from Las Vegas).
Butrflynet
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 11:26 am
From IAEA's Facebook page:


Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Accident Update (24 March 17:25 UTC)
by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Thursday, March 24, 2011 at 11:20am

Japanese Workers Treated for Radiation Exposure

Japanese authorities today reported that three workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were exposed to elevated levels of radiation. The three were working in the turbine building of reactor Unit 3 and have received a radiation dose in the range of 170-180 millisieverts. Two of the workers have been hospitalized for treatment of severely contaminated feet, which may have suffered radiation burns. The workers had been working for about three hours in contact with contaminated water.

The IAEA is seeking additional information.

------------------------------------------------------
From NHK:

2 nuclear plant workers hospitalized

Japan's nuclear safety agency says 2 workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were taken to hospital on Thursday after being exposed to high-level radiation at the Number 3 reactor.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says the workers were standing on a flooded basement floor while working to reconnect power lines in the turbine building adjacent to the reactor. As a result, their feet were exposed to 170 to 180 millisieverts of radiation.

The workers were taken to a local hospital before being moved to the National Institute of Radiological Sciences for treatment.

A third worker was also exposed to the higher-level radiation but apparently did not require treatment.

The maximum level of radiation exposure allowed for nuclear plant workers in Japan is normally 100 millisieverts. But the health and labor ministry has recently raised that limit to 250 millisieverts for emergency crews at the Fukushima plant.

Thursday, March 24, 2011 16:46 +0900 (JST)
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 11:28 am
@cicerone imposter,
yvw.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 11:30 am
@Butrflynet,
I'm not at all knowledgeable on these things but wouldn't rubber hip waders, gum boots of sufficient height prevent these problems.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 11:55 am
@georgeob1,
Sorry, but I don't read the Wall Scum Journal. I got that info from a retired radiologist friend.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 12:09 pm
@Ragman,
Interestingly what you wrote is a verbatum quote from the article. Remarkable coincidence.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 12:23 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Interestingly what you wrote is a verbatum[sic] quote from the article. Remarkable coincidence.


You're just not used to having your propaganda/bullshit verified by factual backup, Gob.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:10 pm
@JTT,
That probably makes sense to you, if not to anyone else.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:05 pm
@roger,
You understand perfectly, Roger. You're just being coy to give yourself your usual much needed out.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:17 pm
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

The three were working in the turbine building of reactor Unit 3 and have received a radiation dose in the range of 170-180 millisieverts. Two of the workers have been hospitalized for treatment of severely contaminated feet, which may have suffered radiation burns. ...

The maximum level of radiation exposure allowed for nuclear plant workers in Japan is normally 100 millisieverts. But the health and labor ministry has recently raised that limit to 250 millisieverts for emergency crews at the Fukushima plant.

Those are SERIOUS doses. I'm amazed they are allowing 250mSv doses even for emergencies. Doses to the extremities are not as serious as whole body doses, but if I remember correctly from my ancient nuclear training, a 1000 mSv whole body dose is fatal 50% of the time. When last I looked, the occupational limit in the US was 30mSv/quarter not to exceed 50mSv/year.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:21 pm
@engineer,
Wow! Those are huge differences that questions who's allowing that increased dosage.

Everything you wanted to know about radiation measurements.
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/southrad/conversion.html
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:57 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
For some reason the French media reporting is better than US media
I think they are happy to report on a nuclear accident in the Pacific that might help them hide all the nuclear tests they have done here .
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:58 pm
@georgeob1,
What's the issue here? Seems that you could be looking for some sort of villain. I simply took the info from my friend who in turn took the extract from Wikipedia. Is that some thing wrong with that or a faux pas? Is there something inaccurate there? Please let me know, if there is.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:18 am
@farmerman,
Chemical expertise urgently needed: can you tell if corium sinking through steel containment? This is a list of nuclides in 15 cm deep puddle under reactor #3, where the workmen who got ill had been wading for hours. Thanks. http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11032503-e.html
Quote:
Radiation dose rate of surface of the water is approximately 400mSv/h.
Result of gamma-ray nuclide analyses based on sampling of puddle

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110325_01.gif
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:35 am
@georgeob1,
Any chance any of the foreign experts now in situ will take over from Tepco? This from previous link: the workmen wading under # 3 are now blamed for (a) reading initial radiation counts from 2 days ago and (b) for not checking their dosimeters. Was there a manager on duty, and if so what was he thinking?!
Quote:
We guess that this incident was caused because the workers regarded
radiation dose of working area as low from survey result of radiation
dose on March 23 and continued working without recognizing change of
working conditions of the day although alarm of their dosemeter rang.

0 Replies
 
 

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