8.8 earthquake hits Japan

@farmerman,

No, I thumbed up all the zeroes. That you didn't see them is because I did.

@ossobuco,

I think, though, that the first time you answer a thread it does cause a thumb up on the Thread thumbs (not post thumbs). Don't trust me on that.

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@ossobuco,

If it isn't important to them, that's okay. It is important to me and others and the thumb counts have no effect on my choice to post the information in them.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

Not sure, but I think this is the photo. Found it on the Reuter's blog. Can't find anything on NHK or TEPCO sites.

This is the correct photo. NHK just posted it with the following:

TEPCO releases photo of No.4 reactor

Tokyo Electric Power Company has released a photograph of the No.4 reactor building at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant where fires were reported on Tuesday and Wednesday.

It shows that a large portion of the building's outer wall has collapsed.

The company produced the photo at a news conference on Wednesday.

The photo, shot the day before from the northwestern side of the reactor, shows that a large portion of the building's outer wall has collapsed. There is an 8-meter hole on the 4th floor, and the interior is visible.

Another 8-meter square hole was also confirmed on the outer wall of the building. Both appeared after an explosion early on Tuesday.

An ensuing fire near the 4th floor reportedly later went out on its own.

Flames were also found spewing from the building early Wednesday, but the utility company said they were no longer visible half-an-hour later.

Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:57 +0900 (JST)

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Quote:

By ERIC TALMADGE and SHINO YUASA, Associated Press – 18 mins ago
FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw.
The level of radiation at the plant surged to 1,000 millisieverts early Wednesday before coming down to 800-600 millisieverts. Still, that was far more than the average
"So the workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk, we are on standby."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake

This is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD news..........

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@hawkeye10,

Yea.

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@Butrflynet,

I also heard somebody suggest sand and cement for the reactors. I'm not sure how viable that option is, but I'm sure many nuke power plant scientists are looking for solutions.

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@cicerone imposter,

That's what I couldn't figure out several days ago when they were talking about using salt water to cool the rods making the plants useless afterward.

From that point on, why were they still fighting to cool the useless thing and not just dumping concrete to seal it like they did for Chernobyl?

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@cicerone imposter,

I considered some kind of concrete pour, but concrete takes a while to cure; true that it is somewhat strong in a shorter amount of time, and one could use a rich mix. The logistics would be beyond tough, even if that had a chance of helping.
If I've thought of that (knowing just about nothing), I'm sure more knowledgeable people have flicked and dismissed.

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@Butrflynet,

cross posting again..

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Interesting sidebar... I've been wondering what happened to all the sea life during the quake and tsunami. This article answers some of it:

http://newstabulous.com/sea-life-well-informed-of-japan-tsunami/5648/

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Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:17am EDT

TOKYO, March 16 (Reuters) - Japanese self-defense forces were preparing on Wednesday to pour water on to the quake-crippled No. 3 reactor at a nuclear plant in the northeast from a helicopter to try to cool the fuel rods, broadcaster NHK said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/japan-quake-copter-idUSTFD00669720110316

1 Reply

@Butrflynet,

I think the answer to why no Chernobyl solution is that this is a completely different kind of reactor. For instance this one has a million gallon pool of water under it, and if I remember correctly Chernobyl had no water at all and the fuel was basically in a pit.

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@hawkeye10,

I'm having enormous difficulty understanding how bad this is, or is not.

50 dead from radiation poisoning, hundreds could die early of tumours over the next 30 years. Not quite as bad as motor vehicle accidents.

Meanwhile the tsunami has killed, what... 30 000, maybe 100 000?

I just think the nuclear fear is a bit... out of proportion.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:17am EDT

TOKYO, March 16 (Reuters) - Japanese self-defense forces were preparing on Wednesday to pour water on to the quake-crippled No. 3 reactor at a nuclear plant in the northeast from a helicopter to try to cool the fuel rods, broadcaster NHK said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/japan-quake-copter-idUSTFD00669720110316

Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:19am EDT

TOKYO, March 16 (Reuters) - A helicopter was unable to drop water to cool a quake-stricken reactor in northeastern Japan probably because of the high radiation, Kyodo news agency said, quoting the defence minister.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/japan-quake-minister-idUSTFD00670120110316

1 Reply

@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

From that point on, why were they still fighting to cool the useless thing and not just dumping concrete to seal it like they did for Chernobyl?

"Work on the roof was the shortest job of all, and lasted only two minutes. Many soldiers were offered a choice of how to fulfill the tour of duty requirement that was necessary for their retirement from Army. One lasted two years in a hellish rain of bullets, rockets and bombs in Afghanistan, and the other lasted two minutes in a tranquil, silent and invisible rain of gamma rays on the roof of Unit # 3."

http://www.memoryarchive.org/en/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Disaster,_1986,_Elena_Filatova

1 Reply

@Eorl,

Quote:

just think the nuclear fear is a bit... out of proportion.

Quote:

Helicopters deployed to dump water on the facility on Wednesday have been pulled out amid concerns over radiation.

Earlier, the plant's operators evacuated its skeleton crew of 50 workers for about an hour as ground-level radiation spiked.

And yet another fire broke out in a reactor, while smoke or steam billowed from another one.

Winds from the facility are currently blowing north-west out into the Pacific Ocean.

Levels of radiation outside the plant have now fallen from 1,000 microsieverts an hour to 600-800 - about the equivalent of two chest X-rays, say officials.

The government said it had no plans to extend a 20-km (12-mile) evacuation zone around the plant.

source

I remember when i was in school we had to watch these nuclear bomb war films and practice going to safe places or hiding under our desk. This was in the early 70s. (I guess the southern schools kept it up longer) I think people are just naturally afraid of any kind of nuclear explosion, accident or worse on purpose.

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@oralloy,

The defense ministry is said - no official confirmation yet - to have called for volunteers - single persons with no dependents - to fly the helicopters.

Dropping mixed sea water and boron to absorb runaway neutrons and try to bring down temperatures in spent fuel pools is obviously the last line of defense here - has to be done before anything is tried about ongoing partial core meltdowns.The pools are on top of the reactor cores in this design; they seem to be exposed to the atmosphere as the roofs have been blown off by radioactive steam. 2 of the 6 reactor containment vessels known to be breached but cores not yet exposed to air. Latest satellite picture available here (thumbnail versions only posted, downloaded pics are too large for this site) http://www.digitalglobe.com/index.php/27/Sample+Imagery+Gallery

http://www.digitalglobe.com/digitalglobe2/image.php?id=922

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@oralloy,

Stop scaring people, Oralloy - or at least explain that Soviet graphite designs contained a minimum number of control rods to be inserted into the core at all times. That number was of course classified, Soviet-style, so nobody told the Ukrainian nuclear reactor operators. No explosion is possible in Fukushima!

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Stop scaring people, Oralloy - or at least explain that Soviet graphite designs contained a minimum number of control rods to be inserted into the core at all times. That number was of course classified, Soviet-style, so nobody told the Ukrainian nuclear reactor operators. No explosion is possible in Fukushima!

If workers walked up to the reactors to pour cement and entomb them, how much radiation exposure do you think those workers would get?

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8.8 earthquake hits Japan

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