Wrestlin' in Wisconsin

@BillRM,

Quote:

Let see if you send your children to private schools or home school them why care if the quality of the teachers go down. Side note Wisconsin is currently rank very high in the performs of their public schools.

I have an interest in good schools of course, and perceived good schools even more because of the effect on the value of my home, but the connection between good pay and good quality work is always dicey and hard to prove. I just saw about a study a month ago that showed that a small pay raise only produced better work for a couple of hours (might have been days), after that it had zero effect. Science is looking into this but so far the results show a situation re the ability of money to motivate that is far more complex than was believed by most.

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@hawkeye10,

Yes indeed Hawkeye lowering the pay to lower middle class is sure the hell going to get the best and the brights college students to go into the teaching field and take on thirty thousand dollars or more in debt to do so.

Pay may or may not have all that must effect in the very short term but you do know we have a high turnover now for teachers leaving that career and lowing the pay and benefits is sure the hell not going to help the matter.

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What all too many of you fail to realize is that building maintenance is a large part of the school budget. During academic 2005-2006, the city of Arlington, MA paid $100,000 to heat its schools.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Pay may or may not have all that must effect in the very short term but you do know we have a high turnover now for teachers leaving that career and lowing the pay and benefits is sure the hell not going to help the matter.

There has always been high turn over, and nether the vastly increased pay and benefits that we put into place nor the generally bad economy has put a stop to it. I would be greatly interested in comparing the wash out rate today with what it was a few decades ago when teacher pay was worse relative the wages available.

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@hawkeye10,

Teacher pay was WORSE a few decades ago?

Quote:

"Teacher salaries increases lag behind hikes in personal income Teacher salaries have not grown in purchasing power over the past quarter century. In 1970-71, public school teachers averaged $9,729. By 1998-99, the average salary had increased to $39,900 - an average annual increase of about 5 percent. Although this increase appears to be substantial, the 1998-99 average salary actually is nearly identical to the average salary in 1970-71 when inflation is taken into account

Quote:

The NEA Research Division once argued that teaching was "priced too low" and that "other employment for college-trained people offered greater financial rewards" resulting in "a substantial number of trained, qualified teachers drawn off yearly for other occupational pursuits."5 That argument was made in 1959. The economic status of teaching has further declined since that time and teaching is now "priced even lower." If the pay gap were to be the same in 2000 as it was in 1959, the average teacher salary would have to be about 13 percent higher. If the comparative pay position of teachers vis-à-vis other occupations requiring a college education were to be the same in 2000 as it was in 1940, the average teacher salary would have to be over 38 percent higher. The 1990s represents a decade with one of the steepest deteriorations in the comparative pay of teachers. The average teacher salary would have to be over 9 percent higher than it is in 2000 to equal the pay gap that existed only 10 years prior.

Quote:

National Teacher Salary Trends: 1970-1990
In constant dollar terms, the salaries of American teachers initially peaked in 1972 and then
declined throughout the rest of the decade. This downward trend experienced a dramatic
turnaround in the 1980's, however. After bottoming out in real-dollar terms in 1981, real
teacher salaries nationally have increased in every year to the present, thereby gradually
returning to approximately their 1972 peak for purchasing power.

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@parados,

Quote:

Teacher pay was WORSE a few decades ago?

Like all government workers teachers have chosen to take most of their pay raises in the form of benefits and deferred income, so the paycheck to paycheck comparison is misleading...

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@hawkeye10,

Oh? And how does teacher pay and benefits compare with other professions?

Did you know that to become a licensed teacher, it takes more then four years of college?

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Oh? And how does teacher pay and benefits compare with other professions?

Did you know that to become a licensed teacher, it takes more then four years of college?

There was a study done that shows that the average teacher in WI makes more than over 60% of the people paying their salaries, even before benies and deferred income are factored, which is a problem. And it is not uncommon for people to go to college and when they get out go back home and work retail for near min wage, so I will save my sympathy for those who are trying to pay off school loans on almost no income tyvm.

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@cicerone imposter,

Some of those benefits that go to teachers are not very good. I was told by the personnel office when I taught at a public school not to take the dental plan: i had to match payments and the pay out was generally less than the contribution.

Currently, I earn $2,967 for each class I teach as an adjunct. I get no benefits. I elected to join the union because, if I did not, some one would sue me and I would be left without legal defense.

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@hawkeye10,

hawk wrote,

Quote:

the average teacher in WI makes more than over 60% of the people paying their salaries,

You missed my question; how does teacher pay and benefits compare with other professions?

It doesn't matter how much more than the average income teachers are paid.

What matters is the individual's profession, and the going rate for that profession.

Your comments are without much common sense; why are you comparing a professional's pay with "average pay?"

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@plainoldme,

Quote:

Currently, I earn $2,967 for each class I teach as an adjunct. I get no benefits. I elected to join the union because, if I did not, some one would sue me and I would be left without legal defense

Colleges and universities saving on cost by having contract workers and students teach rather than profs is a seperate but important problem. Given how long and how high university cost inflation has been running there is no excuse for how little money is spent on undergrad instruction.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Your comments are without much common sense; why are you comparing a professional's pay with "average pay?"

Because pay is best valuated by comparing what you make to what everyone else in the collective makes. When you figure in benefits and deferred income I am betting that teachers are in the top 25% of earners, so then the question becomes are teachers in the top 25% when it comes to creation of value for the collective. You have not forgotten I hope that I am a socialist, if the collective is not getting its moneys worth then pay is too high.

I think teachers are worth what they get on average, but pay scales need to be adjusted taking out both the highest and the lowest earners, and teachers are by no stretch of the imagination underpaid.

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@hawkeye10,

You fail to understand economics.

A doctor will always earn more than a taxi driver. A professional athlete will probably earn much more than any of their fans. It doesn't matter how much any fan makes (or their average income); it's about supply and demand.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You fail to understand economics.

A doctor will always earn more than a taxi driver. A professional athlete will probably earn much more than any of their fans. It doesn't matter how much any fan makes (or their average income); it's about supply and demand.

Markets need to be regulated, left on their own markets will do a poor job of asset allocation, so I dont accept your assertion that supply and demand is a law that must be followed.

We can let supply and demand work as long as it works, but when it fails we need to do something else. Capitalism should only be allowed to function so long as it serves social justice, our deciding that humans serve capitalism and must capitulate to the needs of the capitalist system is one of the great mistakes of our age.

So you see CI, I dont misunderstand economics....my values are not your values, that is the difference.

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@hawkeye10,

Oh, now, you want to regulate the sports market? Sure, go ahead and try. Good luck to ya.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Oh, now, you want to regulate the sports market? Sure, go ahead and try. Good luck to ya.

an 80% tax rate on the high earners should do the trick.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

When you figure in benefits and deferred income I am betting that teachers are in the top 25% of earners, so then the question becomes are teachers in the top 25% when it comes to creation of value for the collective

You got to be kidding me Hawkeye as our friend said first who care about the average income of the state taxpayers that includes a large percent of non-college educated tea parties.

My generation is retiring so who do you think is going to full those jobs that require a four years degree if you lower the pay to the average taxpayer many of whom do not hold any degrees and therefore did not spend fours years and tens of thousands of dollars to get the requirement to teach?

You wish to import the teachers from the third world perhaps?

Hell that could be what is behind this nonsense as the lower the education levels of the voters the better for the GOP.

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@hawkeye10,

Good luck with that 80% tax. You are evidently out of your league when you talk stupid like that!

Do you honestly believe the GOP will even consider increasing taxes from current levels?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Good luck with that 80% tax. You are evidently out of your league when you talk stupid like that!

Do you honestly believe the GOP will even consider increasing taxes from current levels?

Of course not, but then I am also the one who says that both parties should be killed off, and who says that this civilization is dying and will be replaced with new one, so the current position of the GOP is not a deal breaker when talking about what should be done. The political realities of today will not be the situation in the future,

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

There was a study done that shows that the average teacher in WI makes more than over 60% of the people paying their salaries, even before benies and deferred income are factored, which is a problem

Why is it a problem?
Teachers in the 60s made more than the median income.

http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade60.html

1 Reply

Wrestlin' in Wisconsin

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