revelette
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 09:15 am
LFB Director Bob Lang has stated that the DOA numbers are so lacking in details that his
agency is not able to provide any information on how they could have arrived at these numbers.



Wisconsin: Four Facts You Need to Know

Quote:
What's happening in Wisconsin isn't about budget deficits or government spending or even public employee benefits. It's class war, wherein the big business, conservative Right tries to pit working class Americans against one another so that the super-rich can continue to pilfer our private and public coffers for their own boundless gain. Here are the facts you need to know -- and spread:

1. 60% of Wisconsin's largest corporations pay ZERO taxes

According to the Institute for Wisconsin's Future, in 2007 60% of corporations in Wisconsin with over $100 million in annual revenues paid zero taxes. None. Zip. Zilch.


2. Raising corporate taxes in Wisconsin to the national average would generate $1 BILLION in revenue

By comparison, Gov. Walker's union busting bill will "save" a measly $350 million (that is, if you consider lowering the income and security of a core group of tax-paying workers "saving" money...).


3. Cutting taxes on corporations and the rich created state budget crises.

States do not have a spending problem. They have a revenue problem. The recession caused all tax receipts to be lower, but government revenue was artificially suppressed long-before by tax cuts for the big business and the rich pushed through at both the federal and state levels. But with Wall Street tycoons still raking in big bonuses while the rest of us stagger and suffer, anger against big business might reach a boiling point... unless private sector workers can be pitted against public sector workers in a "blame government" charade to diffuse anger from the rightful target.


4. Gov. Walker and the attack on unions are paid for by anti-government Koch brothers

David and Charles Koch, scions of the second largest private corporation in the United States, know how to get a good deal for their dollar. Do you really think the brothers who fund the anti-government, pro-big business Tea Party really give a damn about Wisconsin's deficit? They are using Wisconsin in their larger play to destroy all unions, further strip all workers of benefits and decent wages, and increase power and profit for a very few, very large corporations like their own. The Koch brothers are among Gov. Walker's top political contributors.


I don't know if all those facts are correct or their numbers, but I thought the first and last point of interest.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 02:57 pm
These are comments from an interview that WI Republican state senator Dale Schultz gave on the current brouhaha to local WI radio this morning.

Quote:
"All I know is that we're not talking, we're wasting valuable time about collective bargaining, which I don't ever remember being a part of last election's discussion what so ever."

"You know, to me, this just looks like the classic overreach."


"That's correct. And you know what? I can tell my colleagues are very good and listening to ... I can't tell you how they're going to vote.
" (Answering a question related to the Democrats needing three Republicans to join their cause.)

"We have, you know, the governor taking a phone call on a prank... and umm... you know, you wonder why people don't have any faith in the political process."

"We are going to create a situation where we focus all our energy on wars with each other, rather than building up Wisconsin. And we know what that's like in our families. Do we work together or do we spend all of our energy fighting?"

"That could happen. The problem with that approach is then you'd have to address that this collective bargaining issue really isn't related to the state budget... it would involve an embarassing admission..." (Answering a question about why the Senate doesn't call collective bargaining a non-budget issue and pass that part without Democratic senators presents.)


"...given us labor peace for 50 years in this state." (On collective bargaining with public workers)

"Let's tackle this budget, let's not raise taxes, but let's do it in a way that doesn't wind up tearing apart families and communities."


The ones who really should be pissed here are the WI Republican senators. Walker has screwed them with this bullshit. If he had taken the deal long ago they would all look like heroes now. Instead, they look like villains and not a few of them are going to be recalled if they vote in favor of this.

As of today official campaigns to recall all 8 GOP Senators have been launched:

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/02/wisconsin-recall-2/

There are links inside if you want to donate to the recall effort. I certainly did.

Per the WI Dems, they are going to move forward with these recalls if the Senators vote on the bill at all; it contains many odious positions other than just the attempt to kill the unions. Half-hearted attempts at compromise aren't going to work now.

This is what happens when you go All In on an issue.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 03:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
If they shoot to kill, I'm not surprised democrats aren't in any mood to negotiate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 03:47 pm
In related news, OH is looking to pass a bill that's even worse than the WI one.

The OH Senate reported the bill out of committee today. But in order to do so, they had to kick two REPUBLICANS off of the committee and replace them with cronies for the gov's position:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/by-hook-and-crook-ohio-gop-advances-anti-union-bill.php?ref=fpa

Quote:
Ohio GOP Advances Anti-Union Bill After Last Minute Committee Shuffle
Evan McMorris-Santoro | March 2, 2011, 4:19PM

It took the removal of two -- count 'em -- union-sympathetic Republicans from Ohio state Senate committees, but supporters of Gov. John Kasich's (R) plan to limit collective bargaining rights for state workers were able to move their plan one step closer to Kasich's desk today.

By a vote of 7-5, a State Senate Committee charged with reviewing the collective bargaining proposal -- known as Senate Bill 5 -- moved the bill toward a floor reading and its expected passage. Shortly after that, a similarly close vote moved the bill out of the Senate Rules Committee.

The bill is now on the Senate floor and passage is expected imminently. But opponents of the law say the pathway to today's vote shows how hard a sell Kasich's plan is to the broad swath of voters in the Buckeye state.

Indeed, the narrow committee victories for supporters of the plan came with some awfully bad optics. In order to ensure a vote that would go Kasich's way, the leader of the GOP-controlled state Senate removed Sen. Bill Seitz (R) from the Insurance and Labor Committee and Sen. Scott Oelslager (R) from the Rules Committee. Both Republicans are opposed to Kasich's collective bargaining plan, and their votes against it would have deadlocked their respective committees, thus keeping the bill from moving ahead.

More on the committee removals from the Cincinnati Enquirer here.

Now, as debate rages over the bill on the state Senate floor at this very moment, Seitz and Oelslager are among four Republicans who say they'll vote against Kasich's measure barring all unionized state employees from bargaining for benefits or going on strike. The Democratic minority, which is unified against the proposal, needs three more Republicans to come their way to defeat the law.

That seems unlikely to happen, but the committee removals earlier today have given union supporters in Ohio a new line of attack: Kasich's bill is too conservative for even the members of his own party.

As an SEIU spokesperson told TPM, the booting of Oelslager and Seitz suggests the plan is "an extreme partisan attack" that will alienate Ohio's electorate.

Kasich and his allies have said the changes to collective bargaining are needed to keep the state out of a fiscal hole and say the law is not about union-busting as critics have alleged.


When you have to boot members of your own party out of their positions to pass a bill, you're really reaching.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 04:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Perhaps, but it's a worthy cause.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 04:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
As of today official campaigns to recall all 8 GOP Senators have been launched:
your information seems to be both wrong and slanted
Quote:
MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Five Democratic state senators and six of their Republican colleagues are being targeted by recall attempts.

The recall paperwork has been filed in recent days, as a Senate impasse persists over Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair bill.

The Government Accountability Board said Wednesday the Democratic senators targeted are Minority Leader Mark Miller, Spencer Coggs, Dave Hansen, Jim Holperin and Robert Wirch.

It says the Republicans are Sens. Robert Cowles, Alberta Darling, Glenn Grothman, Randy Hopper, Mary Lazich and Luther Olsen.

Once the recall paperwork is filed, organizers have 60 days to gather signatures. The number of signatures depends on how many voters in that district voted for governor, a number that ranges here from 11,000 to 21,000.

If enough signatures are gathered, the incumbent has to go through a new election.
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/5_Wis_Dems_6_Republicans_targeted_by_recalls_117268623.html
Quote:
Today, the liberal groups Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Democracy for America launched robocalls in the districts of five Republican state senators to determine whether voters are interested in pursuing recall efforts against their respective representatives.

The five targeted lawmakers are: Sens. Luther Olsen, Dale Schultz, Robert L. Cowles, Dan Kapanke, and state Senate President Mike Ellis. Three of those lawmakers -- Olsen, Cowles and Kapanke -- are immediately vulnerable. Under Wisconsin law, elected officials are vulnerable to a recall after one year in office.

Meanwhile, the American Patriot Recall Coalition, a conservative group founded in Utah in response to the events in Wisconsin, is in the process of gathering signatures to recall seven of the 14 Democratic Wisconsin senators who fled their state in protest of Walker's bill.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20037923-503544.html

I still think that Dems loss this game 9 times out of 10....
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 04:20 pm
@georgeob1,
Not surprised you approve. You're at odd with the public on this matter so "worthy" is hardly something you get to own. It certainly is your "cause."

Not a just cause, but a "just cause."

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I still think that Dems loss this game 9 times out of 10....


Well Hawkeye as soon as the recall people are set up to take online donations some of my wealth will cheerfully be transfer to them and somehow in this case I have a feeling that what the GOP in Wisconsin had done is to awaken a sleeping giant.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:26 pm
@BillRM,
Now, where have I heard that phrase before? LOL Admiral Yamamoto during WWII.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Now, where have I heard that phrase before? LOL Admiral Yamamoto during WWII.
That would be a loser...The takeaway from Madison is not how strong the pro union side is but rather how weak. I dont hear anyone but union members complaining, and that is not enough. I would love to see good polling data because it appears that the majority response is that people think that unions should keep collective bargaining but that they dont really care much one way or the other. So long as the citizens will not go to the mat to protect union member rights they will lose.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here is the link to donate funds to the Wisconsin Democrat party and for the record I had just done so myself.

This to me is every middle class person in the nation fight again the Koch brothers of the world.

Just voting is no longer enough.

https://wisdems.zissousecure.com/contribute

BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I dont hear anyone but union members complaining, and that is not enough.


I had not belong to a union sense 1970 and I never even drove through Wisconsin so what are you talking about that only union members are outrage over this matter Hawkeye?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:50 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The 14 Wisconsin state Senate Democrats who left the state two weeks ago now face fines of $100 for each day they stay away.

Republicans remaining in the Senate approved the daily fine today with none of the Democrats present.

The Democrats left Wisconsin in order to delay indefinitely a Republican-backed bill taking away collective bargaining rights from public employees.

The resolution also requires the missing Democrats to reimburse the Senate for any costs incurred during attempts to force them to return. Their salary and other per diem payments can be withheld until they pay back the penalties and costs.

Republicans have already withheld the checks of missing Democrats from direct deposit and denied access to copying machines for their staff.

Meanwhile, five Democratic state senators and four of their Republican colleagues are being targeted by recall attempts.

The Democratic senators targeted are Minority Leader Mark Miller, Spencer Coggs, Dave Hansen, Jim Holperin and Robert Wirch, according to the Government Accountability Board. The Republicans are Sens. Robert Cowles, Alberta Darling, Randy Hopper and Luther Olsen.

Once the recall paperwork is filed, organizers have 60 days to gather signatures. The number of signatures depends on how many voters in that district voted for governor, a number that in these cases ranges from about 11,000 to 20,000.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-missing-wis-dems-now-face-100-daily-fines-20110302,0,7841543.story

And the screws turn a bit more on those who vacated the state and their jobs...
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 05:50 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM, Just finished making a contribution.

I was also a union member when I went to college and worked for trucking companies as a teletype biller. They paid pretty well, but we had to work the night shift. It was pretty good pay for even those days - - -in the early 60s.

Most people do not understand the dynamics between companies and workers. Without unions, workers have been stepped over with their dirty shoes too often. Also, many of the labor laws now in existence were made possible by the unions. Not all are good, but what company policies are always good for the interest of the workers?

Civil unions are shrinking; I think it's about 7% of the civilian labor force. Government unions have grown over the years, and I'm not always in favor of their demands, but without unions, the playing field becomes too out of balance.

I've been retired since 1998, so it's not for me; it's for today's children who must try to survive in an environment where the CEO's earn more than 400 times the other workers for the same company. That imbalance is not ethical or fair.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 06:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And the screws turn a bit more on those who vacated the state and their jobs...


SCREW?????

Off hand Hawkeye I would bet that there are tens of millions of dollars already flowing into the state and beside funding recalls campaigns would made those state senators whole from those fines assuming that such fines would be found valid by the courts after a few years of courts battles.

Of course if the Democrats take back control of the senate in 60 days those fines also would be a moot issue.

All in all I would not be losing any sleep over those "fines" if I was those senators.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 06:17 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
All in all I would not be losing any sleep over those "fines" if I was those senators
These people have personal bank accounts that can not be filled with donations per ethics rules....it matters when they personally lose $700 a week.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 06:31 pm
@BillRM,
Hey, that was quick! Already got my acknowledgement from WI for my donation.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 06:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
These people have personal bank accounts that can not be filled with donations per ethics rules....it matters when they personally lose $700 a week


Bullshit Hawkeye there is nothing in the law that would forbid a person or a group of persons from paying someone else fines. Doing so have no direct relationship to campaign funds or bribing a public officer for that matter.

For more details see the funding of the legal defense of the former Mayor of Detroit as one of many such examples.

Second not a dime can be taken out of anyone personal bank accounts for years as any such law will be challenge in the courts systems for at least that time period.

Third there is a good chance once more that the whole issue will be moot in 6o days.

0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 06:56 pm
Mickey Kaus, a self evowed Democrat, has some thoughts on the public union thing and he has been studying them for a long time (see the link to his 1983 piece on the subject in the 2nd sentence of this piece).

JM
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2011 07:42 pm
Bill O'Reilly and a Fox street reporter accuse WI unions of violence and using out-of-towners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqBpsh94xQ&feature=feedu
0 Replies
 
 

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