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What gives Meaning/Drama to a Film Starring a Killer?

 
 
MrIVI
 
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 11:02 pm
So my question is: what separates one action flick from another and what did you like/dislike about them?

For example: Reservoir Dogs and Armored.

Reservoir Dogs is highly respected. And does feel more meaningful as you watch it, but when you think it through there's not really much character development. *Spoiler* In the end Harvey Keitel does try to help Tim Roth and then is betrayed by Tim Roth which has a Shakespearean element of drama/betrayal.

Armored is not highly respected considered more of a pulp film, but has the same basic character arcs. I honestly, don't remember who helps who (because I wasn't that engaged when I watched it.) But you have the same helping/betraying drama.

Both these films are shot in similar confined locations. One seems to be enduring the test of time (Reservoir Dogs) and the other (Armored) is dropping off the radar. Why? Not I agree I think Reservoir Dogs is better than Armored, but what makes the difference in these action flicks?

I don't want this discussion to just be Reservoir Dogs verses Armored, I was just using those as examples.

An action flick I like that I'd bring up is: Payback starring Mel Gibson. I like the politically incorrect hero. I get sick of these standard revenge films. (The wife is murdered in the beginning of the story and the rest of the film is about avenging the wife.) Payback could be considered this, but it's sort of twisted. He's actually not looking for Revenge he's asking for the money that they killed him for! That's a new twist. In a way it's honor or maybe the symbol of his life he's trying to take back. But at every turn in the film it's: "Give me my money or die." It's not revenge. And it doesn't strike that same old I already watched this feel.

An example of a Mel Gibson I didn't get into was Mad Max: to me it was just straight forward revenge. No twists no turns why do I need to see that movie again?

So tell me what do you like and dislike? Why do you like and dislike it?
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laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 11:15 pm
@MrIVI,
Quote:
he's asking for the money that they killed him for!


This goes to the very nub of scriptwriting. Believable action.
MrIVI
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 11:34 pm
@laughoutlood,
So what would your likes and dislikes and reasons be?
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tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 12:32 am
@MrIVI,
Like any set of similar films, one can judge them on the basis of the quality of acting, story, direction, etc....

I can't say anything about Armored as I haven't seen it. Read some highly critical reviews against the film and thusly I'm not planning on wasting any time or money on this potential bore of a B movie drag.

AS for Tim Roth's character? I don't see his actions as a betrayal. For he's the actual hero of the film since he's the undercover cop and Harvey Keitel is simply a very likable antihero.

In movies I like or love, I need good or great acting, good or great dialogue, good or great storytelling, and for the most part at least one main character of sympathetic ilk. This last part is paramount for me in terms of what movies I can tolerate watching and which movies I find dreadful to waste even a few minutes on.

Rare is a film I can enjoy where I can not find a single sympathetic character: last year's epic 5 and a half hour miniseries, Carlos, is the rare example where I couldn't stand a single main character but I found the film to be utterly compelling. Carlos is a biopic based on the life of Carlos the Jackal. A very real and infamous terrorist from the 60's and 70's.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1321865/

I spent the entire time awashed in schadenfreude as I wished and reveled in the repeated failures of the main characters as they bumble one terrorist action to the next. It's my number two favorite film of 2010.

The film succeeds due to Olivier Assayas's incredible direction, the film's great cinematography and pitch perfect art direction. Not to mention that Édgar Ramírez gave the best performance of 2010 in bringing forth this vile yet poisoned charm womanizer who's alleged radical beliefs didn't sound so sincere as it sounded more opportunistic.
MrIVI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 12:11 am
@tsarstepan,
I have to disagree with you on several levels about Reservoir Dogs, you say Tim Roth didn't betray anybody because he was the hero (good guy). Betrayal is betrayal. And honestly, any time you're a mole or a secret agent or and under cover cop you are by definition a betrayer. Maybe a morally and politically upright betrayer, but certainly a betrayer. So maybe you can call him the good guy, but I would debate his being the hero. If you're using hero to mean lead character, Harvey Keitel is first billed; and if you're using hero to mean the guy who performs the deeds and solves the problems, nobody does, but Harvey Keitel tries, and Tim Roth is just bleeding and crying the whole film.

Now, I don't say any of that to undermine the film. I really like all the actors including Tim Roth (the guy was born for Lie to Me, by the way.) Anyway, when watching Reservoir Dogs, I really believe the characters, it feel real and feels gritty to me. I love that. Armored feel like the Highschool version of the film. There's no grit to it. Just a bunch of people doing a script.

I agree depth of character is a huge part of digging into a film.

Anybody else any thoughts?
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laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 12:57 am
@MrIVI,
Quote:
he's asking for the money that they killed him for!


If he's dead then how does he ask for the money?

I'm all for innovative scriptwriting.
0 Replies
 
 

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