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Any Shirtless Republicans About Tonight?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:45 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Bout right... Honor to ones mate is no guarantee of morality, but it is a good indication of it..


Sorry I desire good leadership abilities and brain and judgment so what and to whom our leaders had sex with is their private business only.

Without either of the low life wife cheaters Franklin or Hamilton it is highly likely we would not have a nation for you to get on your high moral horse about.

To say nothing of the low life slave lover Jefferson.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:40 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Bout right... Honor to ones mate is no guarantee of morality, but it is a good indication of it..


Sorry I desire good leadership abilities and brain and judgment so what and to whom our leaders had sex with is their private business only.

Without either of the low life wife cheaters Franklin or Hamilton it is highly likely we would not have a nation for you to get on your high moral horse about.

To say nothing of the low life slave lover Jefferson.
We need leaders who can lead us out of trouble, and not into it... We can all find our way into it on our own...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 04:18 pm
@Fido,
What Franklin did in or out of bedrooms and with whom does not change the fact that he did talked the French into granting aid such as naval support, troops and and economic help in the form of large loans.

Half the troops at Yorktown was French, the naval forces who stopped the British from reinforcing Yorktown and turn it into a trap was French and on and on so without their aid that Franklin arrange we would not had likely won the revolution war.

So once more judging who can or should be out leaders by their sex lives is on it face insane.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 07:38 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

What Franklin did in or out of bedrooms and with whom does not change the fact that he did talked the French into granting aid such as naval support, troops and and economic help in the form of large loans.

Half the troops at Yorktown was French, the naval forces who stopped the British from reinforcing Yorktown and turn it into a trap was French and on and on so without their aid that Franklin arrange we would not had likely won the revolution war.

So once more judging who can or should be out leaders by their sex lives is on it face insane.
Bill; in the area of international relations, honesty or the appearance of honor is not always the best policy, though it is one I would certainly recommend with the Muslims, for example... We should consider the term, leader, in the sense of democracy, because if we had a democracy, then the people would be the leaders, and those we elect to do our will would follow so far as they were able... What I mean by this is, that if a man is elected to do the will of the people because he is honorable, and educated, then it becomes his task to both educate and demand a high moral standard of those he represents.... I think it is as essential for the representative to guard his morality from the voters as to avoid corrupting them in the course of his own corruption... The problem is not simply one of the immorality of our representatives, but our demoralization across the board... How can we demand moral excellence from our representatives when we have ourselves been corrupted??? Because we have so often benefitted from injustice, how can we demand justice??

When we formed this country we did it as most countries do, as an act of theft, and in our case from King, and Natives...Our morality was superior to that of English royalty, but little better in fact... Protestant morality is defective, but it is inclined to give those who possess it the sense of a complete morality... It was this sort of morality possessed by Franklin, and to the French in a state of complete moral terpitude, he was the perfect ambassadore...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 07:58 am
@Fido,
Sorry Fido but you do not live in the real world it would seem.

Private sexual morals had zero connection with the abilities of men or women to do public jobs as can be shown in a million examples throughout history.

For myself I could care less if a man cheated on his wife as long as he get the job he was elected to done well and on the other hand I would not care to have a man in power no matter how faithful he might be to his wife if he lack the ability to discharge the job he was given to by the public.

Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 05:46 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Sorry Fido but you do not live in the real world it would seem.

Private sexual morals had zero connection with the abilities of men or women to do public jobs as can be shown in a million examples throughout history.

For myself I could care less if a man cheated on his wife as long as he get the job he was elected to done well and on the other hand I would not care to have a man in power no matter how faithful he might be to his wife if he lack the ability to discharge the job he was given to by the public.


You misunderstand morals completely... There is no such thing as private morals of any kind... In fact, morals like everything on earth, is a form of relationship.. Morals are the point where the individual joins his society, and no one, not any one is more a member of their society than they accept the moral understanding of the community... So why should anyone elect anyone to a job of honor whose power is sufficient to invite any amount of corruption when that same person has proved himself immoral??? You say: Because he is able??? An embezzeler might make a good banker with some honor, but ability without honor is not an asset to the people, but a threat...

You have something wrong with your head.... I think it is obscene that these bastards in government can keep the people hopping in defense of rights that they should defend on our behalf, when they continually hide their actions behind the cloak of privacy, and the cover of our rights... Why should they hide behind rights??? Why do they not dare to live fully in the light??? If I can do it, obeying the law, freely open to search or inspection even if I could not stop it; then why can they not do the same??? They put themselves above the law even while they make law as a means to achieve justice- meaningless... What is good for the goose is good for the gander is a lesson lost on them...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 07:13 pm
@Fido,
Quote:
Why should they hide behind rights??? Why do they not dare to live fully in the light??? If I can do it, obeying the law, freely open to search or inspection even if I could not stop it; then why can they not do the same??? They put themselves above the law even while they make law as a means to achieve justice- meaningless... What is good for the goose is good for the gander is a lesson lost on them...


Sorry I do not wish anyone in my private sexual life but for those who are part of that life and I am more then willing to grant the same privacy to others in that area up to and including the president.

You wish for only saints or even asexual people to be able to hold public office it would seem and yet I seen no indication that saints or the asexual have any special abilities to serve the public.

I could name a list of great leaders thought out history that was neither saints or asexual.

Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 08:39 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Why should they hide behind rights??? Why do they not dare to live fully in the light??? If I can do it, obeying the law, freely open to search or inspection even if I could not stop it; then why can they not do the same??? They put themselves above the law even while they make law as a means to achieve justice- meaningless... What is good for the goose is good for the gander is a lesson lost on them...


Sorry I do not wish anyone in my private sexual life but for those who are part of that life and I am more then willing to grant the same privacy to others in that area up to and including the president.

You wish for only saints or even asexual people to be able to hold public office it would seem and yet I seen no indication that saints or the asexual have any special abilities to serve the public.

I could name a list of great leaders thought out history that was neither saints or asexual.


Clearly, you have never heard the story of Caesar's wife... She sort of took it on the chin for the boys; but at least he had the right idea, that his honor should be above reproach...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 12:08 pm
@Fido,
Quote:
She sort of took it on the chin for the boys; but at least he had the right idea, that his honor should be above reproach...


In the real universe there are far more Napoleon wives then Caesar wives and the cheating both did on each other did not interfere or lessen Napoleon abilities one little bit.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:38 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
She sort of took it on the chin for the boys; but at least he had the right idea, that his honor should be above reproach...


In the real universe there are far more Napoleon wives then Caesar wives and the cheating both did on each other did not interfere or lessen Napoleon abilities one little bit.
Give me a break... Nopoleons shedding of wife one for a political marriage with Austria shows him to be one part genius and twoo part fool... The guy was great, but he was only brought down to earth because his mistakes far exceeded his wise moves... He killed the revolution that brought him to power... He embraced the royalty who would never embrace him... Instead of consolidating the gains of revolution, and of building a wall of effective democratic government between himself and all reactionary powers, he instead laid the cost of defeat solely upon the defeated, and counted on the next victory to pay for the last... And in setting up his pets in power and family, he made certain of a reaction that would drive him and the French forever from foreign soil... With Napoleon there would have been no Bismark, and without Bismark there would have been no Hitler... Without Napoleon there would never have been a united German National consciousness, and no cause for the Franco Prussian War, the First World War or the Second World War... Your idea of success is as skewed as your sense of morality...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 05:33 pm
@Fido,
Sorry you have no understanding of history the revolution destroys itself when he was no where near it as in Egypt, as a matter of fact.

He however did picked up the pieces and when being attack by every other power in Europe still manager to do such things as creating the Napoleon codes that far outlives him and benefit the common people of Europe greatly.

The what if of history is interesting but a case can be made that if he had not undermine the ruling classes of Europe and given a large percent of the Europeans a taste of living under a fairer systemsof laws we would had ended up in a far darker world then it turn out to be.

No he was not perfect but only a person such as yourself would assume that anyone is perfect or should be faulted for not being so.

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