Right, Frank, that's why I said "not exactly definitive."
Interesting indeed!
I was looking up "pylons NFL" -- I thought getting some definition of the purpose of pylons might help. (It seems to me that they are there to mark a plane that extends between them but not beyond them and indefinitely in the air.)
Markbreit!!
<said the way Seinfeld says "Newman!">
Useta hate that guy. Bad calls. Or something. I think I was a Vikings fan at the time, though.
I'll see what I can do.
Oh, you have to register. Bah. I thought I was, (Chicago Trib) but no. Was all ready to, but was faced with a long registration page wanting all kinds of info.
Will keep looking.
I went to the local Barnes & Nobles bookstore on my way home from work and there is no mention of this other than what I had posted previously in the NFL's Official Rules Book.
There was another book called "
Illustrated Rules of Football" that explains rules and such and it had a graphic that showed the goal line as an indefinite vertical plane bounded on both sides by the standard sidelines where the front pylons are located.
As far as I could tell the book doesn't have any sort of NFL endorsement but it's the only reference I could find on the question. *shrugs*
*shrugs too*
Will be interested to see if you can come up with anything, Frank... all the evidence I have seen so far seems to say that the plane is bounded by the pylons, doesn't go beyond.
(You just KNOW this is going to be an issue in one of the upcoming playoff games, and we'll all be hopping around saying "We know, we know!" while the announcers scramble.)
One other thing I might mention.
Someone mentioned to me that you will not find the exact situation mentioned in the rule book.
Apparently the answer to this is resolved by putting together two different aspects of the rules.
One has to do with the fact that the goal line extends indefinitely (assuming that it does) -- and the second has to do with the definition of when a person is considered to be out-of-bounds.
If the goal line does extend beyond the pylons -- and if a ball-carrier (and the ball) is not actually out-of-bounds until the ball-carrier or the ball hit the ground out of bounds -- then a touchdown can be scored in the cited situation.
But getting the rules on all of that is proving a lot harder to obtain than I thought.
I ain't giving up.
I heard this situation covered very, very extensively just this year -- and unless the pros were completely all wet -- I have the right take on it.
MORE TO COME.
I don't know how you manage to keep track of all the rules of that game. Obviously I haven't watched a great deal of it, but when I do the rules confuse the hell out of me. Maybe you need to grow up with it.
Question- how many of the American guys here can kick a football? Punt kick I'm referring to.
Funny you should ask, Wilso.
Funny story about that, if I may.
Many years ago, I was in a park with my nephew -- a kid who worshipped me. I was his idol -- and he was the apple of my eye. He must have been 6 or 7years old at the time.
We had a football and were tossing it back and forth.
At some point, I said to him: Lemme show you what I can do.
My plan was to punt the ball as far as I could -- trying to impress him.
Well, I give the ball the best kick I could -- and damn, wouldn't you know that it goes almost straight up into the air and hits the top of a telephone pole right alongside where I kicked it.
I mean this ball bounced squarely off the top of the telephone pole.
Well, Michael goddam near went nuts.
It was the most amazing thing he had ever seen -- and before I could even recover my composure...he took off like a bolt toward a bunch of friends of his who were playing over by some nearby swings and slides.
"Come and see what my uncle can do," I heard him shouting, "You gotta see what he can do."
As you can imagine, twenty or thirty kicks later -- sore leg and all -- I finally had to call it a day.
Never even came close to a repeat.
All the while with Michael moaning, "C'mon, Uncle Frank, show 'em. C'mon!"
Anyway, in answer to your question: Me! Nope, I can't punt.
I can punt the crap out of a football or soccer ball, but half the time I wind up on my ass in the mud.
I could punt in my earlier days. Not well enough to get me into any sort of steady job for it but well enough. I haven't tried in a few years but I'd guess it'd be pretty ugly if I did. lol
By the by...just to put another fly in the ointment...
...I spoke with someone just a short while ago who said that the NFL and the NCAA treat the situation being discussed differently.
He said that the situation as outlined would be a touchdown in the NFL, but in the college game, the ball would be placed at the one yard line.
Don't know if he is right. Still working on it.
This is way more trouble than I thought it would be -- since I know I heard this issue discussed in detail just a few weeks ago during a game where it happened.
Frank, I saw the game you are referencing in your goal line conclusion. What they were saying is that the ball doesn't have cross in between the pylons as long as some portion of your body does, prior to touching out of bounds. I think it was Chris Collinsworth announcing, and being an ex-receiver, you would think he would know. However; I have never once seen a player reach out to touch the pylon (which is inbounds) without the football. I had never heard the rule defined that way before nor have I since. I too have been wondering if he was correct, ever since I heard him say it (twice, if memory serves).
Re: Chris Collinsworth
They say that football hits are equivalent to being in a car crash.
The reason I asked about the kicking- one of the top punt kickers in the NFL (apparently) is a former Aussie Rules player. He was asked on a show out here why they went all the way to Australia just to get someone to kick the ball. He explained that if you see two kids in a park in the US with a football, chances are they will be throwing it to each other (of course they all want to be the star quarterback). Of course if you see two kids in a park in Australia with a rugby or Aussie rules ball, they will be kicking it to each other. I can't remember not being able to kick a football.
Interesting Wilso. I never really thought about that. I can throw a football a mile but suck at kicking. It looks so easy, but damn do they kick that thing a long way!
Although I've never tried it, I'm sure if I tried to throw a football, somebody would observe that I throw like a girl!!!
I throw like a girl.
I used to be the quarterback often, though. (Would play touch football with the boys when I was a kid.) ("Touch" means "as opposed to tackle" -- no comments, please.)
I never really got the hang of kicking, you have to get just the right spot on that damn weirdly shaped ball if you want to approximate any aim.
Fact is Wilso, almost every place kicker in the NFL is from a foreign country -- mostly countries that excel in soccer (football to you).
Yeah. Just read about Gary Anderson, who is still going strong at 44. Grew up in South Africa playing soccer, didn't even attempt a punt until he was 18.
Actually, there are more home-grown punters than place kickers -- although even there, we see lots of imports.
QUESTION:
(Actually, a play on what Sozobe asked earlier about the pylons.)
It is just about certain that the goal line extends out along the plane of the goal line out-of-bounds.
Can there be any other reason for that, except that a ball can break the plane out-of-bounds?
I've tried thinking of any other reason, but have drawn a blank. Anyone else come up with anything?
