@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:
I'm sorry that I will give this harsh and brutal answer, but I'v seen enough of PQ's usually weird questions and answers.
I feel we are let in a "fool's errand" by her lack on rationallity, wasting our time providing answers PQ will never comprehend.
The only meaningful answer to all PQ's questions in past, present and future ..is ..please get ur skitzo disorder cured!
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Wow, Hex, that post is certainly something.
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
The Pentacle Queen wrote:Providing the above is true, then how does art theory 'help' art, specifically with regards to interpretation?
To answer this question, let me first backtrack to a point where you don't quite have an aesthetical theory yet, but are beginning to develop one.
Let's say you've just attended a piano recital with a friend. Now you're sitting together and talk about it over a glass of wine. What kind of statements would you typically be exchanging? Would they just be subjective outbursts like "I really enjoyed that second piece", or "I wish the pianist hadn't played the opening movement so fast"? I think not. From what I know about you, it seems much more likely that you would also make objective-sounding statements and defend them with reasons: "This second piece was beautiful
because ....", and "the pianist's tempo was too fast
because...". Moreover, you would expect that each side listen to the other's arguments and be open to persuasion: "I guess you're right. He
should have played that first movement more slowly, give it more time to breathe." I'm pretty sure that's how your conversation would play out.
Once you concede
that much, you can see that aesthetic theories, at least implicit ones, are almost inevitable. If you give reasons to justify your aesthetic judgment, if you expect these reasons to persuade anyone, and if you are even the slightest bit curious, you will just
have to ask yourself where their persuasiveness comes from. You
have to ask yourself what kind of assumptions you're working from, what permissable logic gets you from one statement about aesthetics to another, and what aesthetic experiences might possibly refute the argument. And that's an aesthetic theory.
So my answer to your question is this:
Implicit aesthetic theories---the kind from which you reason in your after-concert conversations---are practically inevitable. And once you have implicit aesthetic theories, it's just interesting to make them explicit so that one can explore them. That's what explicit aesthetic theories can be useful for---the kinds that you read books about.
Thank you Thomas, that was an extremely good post; I feel a bit stupid for not being conscious of the 'graded' manner through which we arrive at theory. Could you explain your distinction/the relationship between implicit and explicit theories any more?
@The Pentacle Queen,
Explicit theories would be those who immediately and literally reveal with clarity in each step of its length each of its operative goals in an objective manner...
Implicit theory´s are not immediately self revealing, or self explanatory, given that
not all variables from which they emerge are explicitly exposed, or immediately known...instead, they have to be brought up, one by one in order to form a picture which is clear enough to a broader audience.
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:Thank you Thomas, that was an extremely good post; I feel a bit stupid for not being conscious of the 'graded' manner through which we arrive at theory. Could you explain your distinction/the relationship between implicit and explicit theories any more?
You're welcome; no need to feel stupid.
And I'm afraid there's little to explain about the distinction between "implicit" and "explicit" theories about aesthetics. They're just labels I made up on the spot, simply because I saw a phenomenon that needed a label so I could talk about it. The phenomenon is that when speakers say "this is beautiful because_____", it means there must be an aesthetic theory
somewhere. The place of that "somewhere" could be buried in their subconscious guts, or it could lie fully mapped out in their conscious minds. But there's a theory
somewhere. I made up the modifiers "implicit" and "explicit" only to characterize these two places. I might as well have chosen "conscious" and "unconscious". Either way, there would have been no deep insight behind that choice.
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:
Nonsense.
But surely you jest.
I'll answer in PM, as my answre may not suit a casual discussion.
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
JLNobody wrote:
Nonsense.
But surely you jest.
I'll answer in PM, as my answre may not suit a casual discussion.
What is this about?
Do you really wanna know PQ? ..it's my usual unpleasent answer, so no new suprizes.
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:
The Pentacle Queen wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
JLNobody wrote:
Nonsense.
But surely you jest.
I'll answer in PM, as my answre may not suit a casual discussion.
What is this about?
Do you really wanna know PQ? ..it's my usual unpleasent answer, so no new suprizes.
Hex, seriously, that's hilarious, you were going to PM JL all the "The PQ has no grip on rationality' stuff? I don't mind you posting it publicly.
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:Hex, seriously, that's hilarious, you were going to PM JL all the "The PQ has no grip on rationality' stuff? I don't mind you posting it publicly.
You may not, but others in other threads may not, I do actually try to be polite and discrete when I can.
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
The Pentacle Queen wrote:Hex, seriously, that's hilarious, you were going to PM JL all the "The PQ has no grip on rationality' stuff? I don't mind you posting it publicly.
You may not, but others in other threads may not, I do actually try to be polite and discrete when I can.
That didn't make sense.
You'r right, it's "others may".
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:I do actually try to be polite and discrete when I can.
that way lies madness my friend
Ill bet I could post a question like "I wonder what time it is"? and within two pages Id be demonized and called an idiot for not having the smarts to read the bootom corner of my computer screen.
@farmerman,
don't be so stupid
the time is in the upper right hand corner
ART
Sometimes people define art as a beautiful painting or a drawing hung on the wall of an art gallery. Dance and music are also great expressions of art. I envisioned art a few summer days back in everything that was everywhere. This essay is about what I saw, and how I got there on that very special day.
I decided to go for a bike ride through the oldest, and in my opinion, the finest neighborhood in the city, searching for the best flower garden. It was going to be a contest, and I was the judge. I do not spend my weekends gardening, nor have I ever judged a garden contest before. I also have never sauntered casually on my bicycle, using it for exercise and mountainous speed ventures was for me the norm. It seemed a relaxing idea, so out the door I went. Early in my mission I discovered a residential garden of such magnitude, that it set the bar or standard that all other gardens would be judged. The garden had everything beautiful. It had color, shade or shadow, design, and a place. It was clean, and well manicured. It had meandering walks, with areas for contemplation. I stopped for a while and saw the garden and its diverse vegetation, as a piece or pieces of art. The rest of the day became an art show. I saw artistic gardens and flowers everywhere. I began to smell the art, it became intoxicating. I started to see art in the design of homes, and how the gardens were meant to compliment each other. I saw it in entrance ways, stain glass windows, and staircases. There was art in the majestic tree lined streets. I made it downtown to the river, where everything drains, including meandering bicyclists. Someone had designed the most unbelievable fountain, with marble walkways and hanging baskets of flowers. I talked with a few bystanders in the art gallery I was traveling, and noticed they had art all over them. It was in their jewelry, hair style, clothes, and a smile that remains etched in my mind. I stopped in a café for some nourishment, and also to come down a little bit. Unbelievably, the food was artistic, made by artisans, in a dinning room that defined decor in an unusual way. When I came back outside, I looked up and saw cotton ball clouds on a turquoise canvas, oh please stop!
I ended my trip, or art show, five hours later, buying the best garden in the city a first place award. I see art much more often today, and in many more places. Not like that special day, but much more than I had. Art to me can be everything, thanks.
PS: Slowing down seems to be the key.
MJA
