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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 12:22 pm
@JPB,
Unfortunately, the Egyptian constitution requires the president to lead in the change of the transition.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 12:36 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Reuters and the BBC report that the US's special envoy for Egypt has said Hosni Mubarak must stay in power for the time being to steer changes needed for political transition.


Isn't that a flip-flop?
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 12:44 pm
@spendius,
perhaps it's time=clarity of thought re transition of government/authority vs chaos or perhaps it's the military establishing a plan of action, perhaps it's the dawning of the age of Aquarius.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 12:47 pm
@dyslexia,
Perhaps it's a fear to be thought irrelevant or to not know which way up is.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 01:22 pm
@spendius,
Reading back a bit... Hillary Mann Leverett Biography

From Al Jazeera:

4:14am: Hillary Mann Leverett, a foreign policy professor and former White House official tells Al Jazeera that the "transition process" the Obama administration seeks from Mubarak is going to be "very, very problematic". Here's why:

Omar Suleiman (Egypt's newly appointed vice president) is reviled among the Egyptian population. He is seen as the government's - the regime's - point-man in dealing with Israel, upholding Israeli policies vis-a-vis Gaza. He's seen as the regime's point-man in the so-called 'war on terror', the rendition programme that brought Egyptians from overseas back to Egypt to have enhanced interrogation done with them.

Mann Leverett says that Egypt is "the bedrock ... the centre of gravity for US policy " in the Middle East, and now, that bedrock has "fallen through the floor. She's not surprised...

The real problem here is a substantive problem in terms of US policy. That is, that the way that we, the United States government, has defined our interests in the middle east, particularly vis-a-vis what is going on in Gaza and with Israeli policies, the way we have defined those interest are unacceptable, largely, on the Arab street in many Arab populations. So it's impossible for us to call for, let alone to foresee and push for democratic outcomes. They're not in our interests...this is a failure of American policy at its very core.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 01:22 pm
@spendius,
They've been wishy-washy from the outset.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 01:45 pm
@JPB,
Being wishy washy is all the USA can do in their attempts to disguise their stunning levels of hypocrisy.

This kind of thing used to work out much better for the US. By and large there was relative silence. The media toed the government line, other major countries weren't all that eager to point fingers hoping that their own skeletons would stay in the closet.

Even the old last resort, used by Gob, Lash, Setanta, Finn, and others, the self flagellation, "yeah, we've had a few bad spells but we're not the great Satan", isn't working out as it has in the past.

Cotton/fingers in the ears denial is still pretty big, but it only momentarily helps the guilty. There has been almost no anti-American rhetoric from the Egyptians. They know full well who butters their dictator's bread.

The truth is starting to finally catch up to the US.
talk72000
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:04 pm
The Phillipines and Vietnam are countries with over population. The Phillipines has a population of 95 million and the Catholic Bishop is against artificial control i.e. using condoms. I guess this Bishop thinks it is better for Filipinos to live like animals than to use condoms. Vietnam is Communist so it can like China start a one-child policy or could face a revolt.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:08 pm
@talk72000,
talk, Did you know that Vietnam has the highest rate of abortions? They're trying.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:12 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Being wishy washy is all the USA can do in their attempts to disguise their stunning levels of hypocrisy
I am thinking that what is being disguised is lack of relevance.....the US government wants to go on pretending that it is the lone superpower with our hands on the levers of power all around the world, when that is no longer the case. Egypt is just the latest case where our delusion drives us to actions that make us look pathetic.

Of course you dont want to hear this JTT, as once we admit that America no longer drives your complaining about how America drives no longer means anything.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
but why do I have this feeling that you are one of those noble souls that believes the US should not consider itself the police force of the world.


When these vicious lies are uttered they must be set straight. And Finn is one that spews these lies on a constant basis.

The US has never been the world's police force. The US has always been the world's gangster force, save a few instances. The US admits it themselves - it's always "our national security".

That means turfing out democratically elected governments and installing dictators, never benevolent ones of course. Or it means the US does the same with its own military, though this has fallen out of favor - it makes it much harder to deny the torture, rape, murder, etc.

Quote:
If you wish to be a cheerleader, be my guest. It's certainly quite easy to urge people to die or destroy their lives for a freedom you cherish when you are sitting in front of a computer in the comfort of your flat in London.

But this is such a high-tech revolution, why don't you fly over there and join them behind their barricades and you castigate me from the thick of things? While you dodge Molotov cocktails, bullets and machetes your scolding might actually amount to something more ....


Unable to address the facts of the situation, Finn launches into the very thing he castigates others for.

Hypocrisy hypocrisy hypocrisy mixed with an ample dose of lies, seasoned with a pretense that he actually cares for those outside the tiny little world his mind inhabits.



0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:18 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
I guess this Bishop thinks it is better for Filipinos to live like animals than to use condoms.


Condoms are an artificial way of living like animals and habituating users to think there is no other way. They are also very profitable and, as such, can afford to finance their own propaganda.

One might ask permission of the lady for example which the Bishop might think more human.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
So true; our country will never learn, and we will continue to spend billions and sacrifice our men and women for the most stupid of political reasons.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:20 pm
JTT-
You've directed me to page 12, promising a coherent, fact-based opinion about the current situation in Egypt that isn't driven by your "crazed, anti-American" obsession. I did go to see what you consider a coherent, fact-based opinion.

All I see is a couple of articles other people wrote.

Do you have an opinion about what's going on in Egypt that isn't driven by your hatred of America?
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:21 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I would be interested to know exactly what one can expect anyone here to do?


Stop with the hypocrisy; that would be a great start.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:22 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
this is a failure of American policy at its very core.


To what cause do you attribute this outcome? Were there no warning signs? Were they put on Ignore by any chance?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

So true; our country will never learn, and we will continue to spend billions and sacrifice our men and women for the most stupid of political reasons.
At some point in the not too distant future our bankers will not allow us to continue the charade. A drastic cut in the defense budget is only about a decade away. Once we no longer have Aircraft carriers plying the globe any pretense that America runs anything will be over.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
I understood that aircraft carriers ply the globe to provide career opportunities for the products of colleges and universities. And jobs right down the line to the firm that makes the screws which fasten the loo seat to its housing.

If all involved were released onto the labour market wages might be a lot less than they are and you might be able to get a plumber to call within a day or two.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:36 pm
@spendius,
From a scientific point of view an aircraft carrier is made entirely of labour.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2011 02:46 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
But you are not physically standing on the sidelines in Cairo and so whether you issue encouragement or caution is irrelevant.


Exactly. The other day you made it seem like those of us here on this Internet thread who are in support of the protesters and hope they stick it out and hope for their success should feel bad if they get hurt. It would be a horrible tragedy if those thugs as you called them mass murdered the protesters. I imagine the protesters who have been living with this (apparently) for so long knew the risk before they joined the protest and they must have felt that it was worth doing even at their own risk of safety. Also it might breed resentment among the youth in Egypt which a lot of time in the part of the world leads to extremist groups if in the end they are not successful in getting Mubarak to resign. Lord forbid tomorrow something horrible happens, but I hardly think I should feel bad for encouraging it, that would be massively egotistic on my part if I did so not to mention unrealistic. I know that and knew that and have acknowledged that already at least twice.

On my analogy to both you and george, perhaps it was a poor one. Smile
 

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