Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

This is a direct result of what happened in Iraq.

Once again - bullshit. This is an evidence-free statement if I ever saw one.

Cycloptichorn

@cicerone imposter,

I was thinking how I would love to hear what the US and other advisors are telling him. You are correct, of course. He should step aside for his country. I mean, it's going to be a crazy nuthouse for a while - the infrastructure is decimated... Since it was seemingly a pure grassroots movement - when the dust clears, it will be a frightening time for them and the world as ominous factions wrestle for dominance. I just hope beyond hope that some legitimate person with a deep love for Egypt - and with no shadowy allegiences can rise to the top of the debate.

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@spendius,

Not if you love your country and see that a fresh wind is blowing through your country and your people. The old way is dead. I guess a person would have to be devoid of greed and ego to see it, though.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Bush outlined this happening. It is happening. On a wide scale.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Bush outlined this happening. It is happening. On a wide scale.

More evidence-free assertions. What source have you read, which shows that the Iraq war or the situation there was what spurred this event?

I think, instead, it's simply convenient for you to try and justify previous foolishness on your party's part by latching on to events.

Unless you can provide some evidence of causation, I don't know why you think anyone here finds your statements compelling.

Cycloptichorn

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...wondering if the students in China know what's happening in Arabia...

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@Lash,

Quote:

Bush outlined this happening.

Lash Lash Lash. Major naive. Bush didn't outline that those people who were being oppressed by US dictators should rebel. He only sought to foment trouble in those countries where the US had no influence.

Quote:

It is happening. On a wide scale.

Yes, because of WikiLeaks which has exposed the corruption that the US has engendered in so many countries.

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@Cycloptichorn,

(smiling) It is ok with me if no one here will give it credence. This is largely a partisan-aligned, fingers in ears group. (but, smiling again) It's enough for me to know ....you know it's true. You'll be hearing about it in the news after the dust settles. Doesn't make him right about everything. Doesn't even calculate the loss of life and suffering that added in to the enterprise... But, he said it would happen as a result of increased freedoms in the region.

And, it did.

DOMINOES

1 Reply

2:26 am AJE Web producer reports that tension is rising at Kasr al Nil (bridge) entrance to Tahrir Square, saying "They expect an attack here."

2:03 am The fire at the residential building seems to have subsided.

1:47 am Al Jazeera correspondent, reporting from just off Tahrir Square reports that dozens of Mubarak supporters have erected a barricades on either side of a road, trapping anti-government protesters. They are also gathering stones, breaking streetlights and putting on balaclavas, covering their faces, apparently in preparation for a fresh standoff with anti-government protesters. Sources tell our correspondent that the men preparing for the standoff are police officers.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

(smiling) It is ok with me if no one here will give it credence. This is largely a partisan-aligned, fingers in ears group. (but, smiling again) It's enough for me to know ....you know it's true.

No - I'm telling you 1000%, that you are wrong. There's no evidence that the two had anything to do with one another.

Quote:

You'll be hearing about it in the news after the dust settles. Doesn't make him right about everything. Doesn't even calculate the loss of life and suffering that added in to the enterprise... But, he said it would happen as a result of increased freedoms in the region.

And, it did.

Oh, is this happening because of increasing freedoms in the region? In what way? None of the places we intervened in are any freer today than they were before, and hundreds of thousands are dead. Please, give us specific examples of the freedoms that you are referring to.

Before calling me or anyone here a 'fingers in ears' group, provide one bit of evidence. Show that you know the difference between correlation and causation in things like this.

I think that former Bush supporters have been secretly hoping for years for some sort of event to take place that they could then turn to their advantage, claiming that it was the result of something he did. In an attempt to quiet the cognitive dissonance that results from realizing that they spent years defending a truly foolish man who made mistake after mistake.

Enough sidebar for me, don't want to derail the thread any further.

Cycloptichorn

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@engineer,

If I'm Mubarak, I think it brings more and wider rage. But that's an old story worldwide, usually learned late.

But, Engineer, I see your point.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

What's the annual income from the Suez Canal?

Don't have an annual amount, but in December the revenues totalled $423.4 million, a 2.6 per cent rise from November's $412.8 million.

This is down a bit from 2008 when revenues were closer to half a billion (on average) a month.

I found these figures recently when I was looking for information on the population of Cairo (17-18 million depending on the source). Also interesting is that 1/3 of the population in Cairo are under 15 and 3/5 are under 30. Ok, that's more than you wanted to know lol.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Butrflynet wrote:

12:10 am AJE Web producer, reporting from Tahrir Square, reports no police presence at this point.

Good, I think.

I amend that to say I don't know if it's good or not. That "I think" was equivocal.

The failure to protect the National Museum by army or police is outrageous.

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@Cycloptichorn,

I'm not a Bush supporter. I'm not a Republican. I give credit where it is due. You don't see me toe-ing the "party line." I don't attack Obama. I do remember Bush said this would happen, and he deserves credit for it. As president, I could have never taken the gamble. Innocents were killed. I personally couldn't withstand the responsibility.

Who knows - and who can calculate - if the loss was worth the possible boon. And, if some dark force makes us pine for the peace America held together with Mubarak and financial aid - is yet to be revealed. Don't mistake my nod to Bush as crowing. We don't know what's going to happen.

But, he called it.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
It seems they have now torched the Egyptian museum. It's a crime against humanity to destroy these treasures.

It's not within sight of one child dying of malnutrition as a crime against humanity.

Huh? Are you posing this as a choice?

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Tweets from the site. Time stamp counts back from this post.

Quote:

evanchill

1. Tweeting from the front line at tahrir, men are beating on metal railing rhythmically with sticks. Rocks raining down ahead less than 5 seconds ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

2. Protesters are shuttling up huge bags of rocks, moving them using four people 4 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

3. I'm about 100 meters behind the front line and the sounds from ahead are like a premodern war, constant banging and shouting 5 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

4. Heavy military presence at the museum, and there's a line of tanks and APCs, but they're pointed toward the square 8 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

5. Almost everyone inside tahrir is armed and/or walking with a limp. One man has a police riot shield 14 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

6. The whole road leading into tahrir from the bridge has been turned into a stockpile of rocks. Boss yells: come to the front! 19 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

7. Tension is rising at kasr al nil entrance to tahrir, they expect an attack here 21 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

8. Hossam eid al sharqawy, the boss here, tells me to remember his name if he dies today 26 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

9. Inside kasr al nil: a stockpile of rocks, seems like half of the ppl have bandages here 27 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

10. Kasr al Nil entrance to tahrir is quiet, can't even hear chaos near museum 41 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

11. Going to try to take a closer look at Tahrir Square. 44 minutes ago via Seesmic for BlackBerry

12. woodenbeirut RT @sam_to_the_t http://tiny.cc/9o6qs Photos from Tahrir Square from tonight #Cairo #Jan25 #Egypt about 1 hour ago via web Retweeted by evanchill and 23 others

13. The protesters have won the space for the army to re-establish itself as some kind of buffer, but the army isn't doing anything. about 1 hour ago via HootSuite

14. A building on the corner near the front lines has been lit on fire. Some sort of side courtyard. Flames creeping up its wall. about 1 hour ago via HootSuite

15. Every so often a car pulls up on top of the overpass and appears to deliver molotov cocktails to the pro-Mubarak supporters. about 1 hour ago via HootSuite

16. A crowd on top of the 6th of October overpass has stayed since the pro-Mubarak lines broke and is throwing molotovs at the Tahrir protesters about 1 hour ago via HootSuite

Cycloptichorn

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@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

I found these figures recently when I was looking for information on the population of Cairo (17-18 million depending on the source). Also interesting is that 1/3 of the population in Cairo are under 15 and 3/5 are under 30. Ok, that's more than you wanted to know lol.

I have seen numbers like that before, Irishk. Egypt as a whole has a population of about 77 million. On the one hand the younger people in Cairo (and other cities) probably suggests a more secular society less inclined to be attracted to strict Muslim teachings.
On the other hand, I worry about how the economy can produce enough jobs to support the demographic you suggest: young, educated...and unemployed. That scares me.

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@Lash,

Me thinks you take the American influence as a much greater force than it is. The whole of Europe is covered with Democracies, there are even Democratic government in Africa, Asia and N. and S. America.
Sure, Bush could have said something at some point about Middle East countries throwing out their autocratic governments, but to say that the US is the cause for the Egyptian uprising is, well, a little silly and a little naive.

1 Reply

@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

Sources tell our correspondent that the men preparing for the standoff are police officers.

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

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