53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 11:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
No kidding Dick Tracy.
No kidding Dick Head .

Quote:
With the exception of academic curiosity and speculation, what difference does it make how a power is beaten?
Its important so even the dull and ignorant can learn lessons from it .

Quote:
The US was defeated by Vietnam.
Bullshit . The Alllies (I assume from your amero-centric view of the world you actually mean the USA and the others who fought there, including South Vietnam) had the war won . The civilian population, first in South Vietnam then in the USA, gave up .

Quote:
Why the colonists rebelled and how they behaved after their successful revolution is also immaterial as respects the question of who won and who lost.
Motive is very important . It helps decide who won and who lost . I was also suggesting how the war was fought . It wasnt the bad British traitors amongst the colonialists, it was the other way around . A few bad colonialists were dragging the others into a nation they didn't want . It was a scary world surrounded by big nations for such an upstart to be in and though many disliked Britain, they didnt want to go it alone either . The real traitors decided who was a traitor after their revolt was successful .

Quote:
If the Libyan rebels closely mimic the American rebels, notwithstanding the the inevitable flaws of the latter, North Africa will be a truly amazing source of replenished democratic energy.
Agreed .

There are many events as a result of the USA WoI that I for one would not like to see repeated, however .
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 11:18 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
No kidding Dick Tracy.
No kidding Dick Head .

Quote:
With the exception of academic curiosity and speculation, what difference does it make how a power is beaten?
Its important so even the dull and ignorant can learn lessons from it .


Ever the asshole Ionus...

Perhaps next time you can respond intelligently.

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 11:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
What a typical self declared expert you are....you were happy having your niggling little snipes at me, but didnt like it when I retaliated . If you like to give insults then you should have the balls to take insults back . Have a good cry and think about it......you insult me, I insult you.....get it ?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 08:13 am
Personally i wish they would revive abuzz but anyway.. for an update on Libya

Libya rebels accuse coalition of standing by as Misrata assault continues, saying air strikes have abated since Nato took charge
Quote:

Muammar Gaddafi's forces are using civilians as human shields to foil Nato air strikes, France said after rebels accused the western-led coalition of standing by while government troops continue their assault on Misrata.

The French foreign minister, Alain Juppé, conceded that the position of rebel-held city – under daily shelling and sniper fire from the army – was intolerable but said there was little more which could be done immediately.

"We've formally requested that there be no collateral damage for the civilian population," he told France Info radio. "That obviously makes operations more difficult."

The head of France's armed forces gave a similar response to complaints from rebels that the pace of air strikes has abated since Nato took over control of Libyan operations from the US, France and UK on 31 March.

"I would like things to go faster, but as you are well aware, protecting civilians means not firing anywhere near them," Admiral Edouard Guillaud told Europe 1 radio. "That is precisely the difficulty."

He said Nato was concentrating operations on Misrata, where rebels hold the port zone, while also trying to prevent the transit of new weapons to Gaddafi's power base in Tripolii.

The comments follow a scathing reprimand for the alliance by General Abdel Fatah Younis, leader of the ramshackle rebel forces. He said: "Nato blesses us every now and then with a bombardment here and there, and is letting the people of Misrata die every day. Nato has disappointed us."

Younis, formerly Gaddafi's interior minister, said there had been a marked slackening of operations since Nato took over: "The reaction of Nato is very slow. One official calls another and then from the official to the head of Nato and from the head of Nato to the field commander. This takes eight hours."

He disputed Nato's reasoning for limiting air strikes on Misrata: "Nato says Gaddafi's forces are hiding among civilians. But we tell them that there are no civilians left in the areas where the Gaddafi forces are positioned. We urge them to destroy civilian property to take out the snipers and armed gangs.

"Following an initially rapid to-and-fro which saw the rebels swiftly advance before being pushed right back, the battle for control of the country has become bogged down in a near stalemate between Tripoli and the rebels' base in the eastern city of Benghazi, one maintained by Nato's enforcement of a no-fly zone and attacks on Gaddafi's forces.

The latest fighting, according to rebels, saw resupplied government forces push eastwards out of the oil port of Brega.

Pick-up trucks loaded with machine guns and rocket launchers headed west from Ajdabiyah while several families fleeing the fighting in cars loaded with their belongings passed them in the opposite direction.

Hossam Ahmed, a defector from Gaddafi's army, said the frontline was 40-60km (25-37 miles) west of Ajdabiyah, saying the retreat "wasn't a full withdrawal", it's back and forth.

Ajdabiyah, gateway to Benghazi, is about 80km east of Brega.

Like other rebels at Ajdabiyah's western gate, Ahmed expressed frustration at the lack of Nato action. "There have been no air strikes. We hear the sound but they don't bomb anything," he told Reuters.

Another rebel, Khaled al-Obeidi said: "What has Nato done, what has Nato bombed?"

Thus far, air strikes have removed almost a third of Gaddafi's military capacity, Brigadier General Mark van Uhm, a senior Nato staff officer, said in Brussels. He also said that remaining government forces were often hiding in populated areas: "When human beings are used as shields we don't engage."

Amid the stalemate there has been increasing focus on diplomatic efforts, such as encouraging key Gaddafi loyalists to defect.

Gaddafi is seemingly attempting to play the same game. Libya's official Jana news agency said that he had sent a message to Obama "following the withdrawal of America from the crusader colonial alliance against Libya". The US played a key role in early air strikes before Nato took over.


cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 10:03 am
@revelette,
This is the result from getting involved in the no fly zone. They never looked at the long-term problems that was sure to crop up after the initial bombings from the air.

Trying to control ground troops from the air when the enemy uses human shields, you've already lost the war. The people who planned the no fly zone should have known this was a lose-lose involvement. Good intentions are never solutions for a civil war.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 10:34 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They never looked at the long-term problems that was sure to crop up after the initial bombings from the air.


You can't be serious can you ci.?

I like you're XVIIIth century usage of "was" there. I think it has more style than the alternative.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 11:13 am
@spendius,
Serious? Have you followed my posts on this issue from the very beginning?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 01:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Of course I have. I read all posts on threads I'm in. What difference does that make? You stated something incredible as a "fact".
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 02:35 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
Thus far, air strikes have removed almost a third of Gaddafi's military capacity, Brigadier General Mark van Uhm, a senior Nato staff officer, said in Brussels. He also said that remaining government forces were often hiding in populated areas: "When human beings are used as shields we don't engage."


They've got to get the specialists in there. Bring on the ole US of A. Now they've got credentials.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 02:50 pm
@spendius,
The difference is that you don't remember anything you have read of my posts. Your comments make that obvious.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 07:21 am
Personally I was kind of surprised to in the news that the US has basically withdrew from the no fly zone in Libya. I haven't really been keeping up with it as I have been somewhat busy in personal life and will be very busy in the future. (baby sitting a very active baby...)

US begins withdrawing forces from Libya no-fly zone

Quote:
American jets and warships are to be pulled away from Libya, as the conflict descends into a stalemate between the two groups

The United States will begin withdrawing its combat jets, missile ships and submarines from the operation to secure the no-fly zone over Libya, as the conflict appears to be descending into a stalemate between the two opposing sides. The move, announced by senior US military officials, comes amid increasing vocal scepticism from members of President Barack Obama's administration over the capability and representative nature of the Libyan opposition.

Among the US planes being withdrawn are the A-10 Thunderbolt and AC-130 ground attack aircraft, which have been used to devastating effect against Muammar Gaddafi's armour. The number of US navy ships involved in the campaign had already shrunk to nine, compared with 11 at the start of the operation, and it is likely to shrink further in the days ahead.

The US had committed 90 aircraft to the Libyan missions. Their withdrawal will leave coalition forces with 143 aircraft, including 17 British aircraft and 33 French. The move comes amid signs of sharp differences over tactics in the coalition, with France still understood to be pushing for an escalation in intervention.

The past few days have already witnessed a reduction in the number of US combat missions. The announced withdrawal follows the transfer of command from the US to Nato.




spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 07:59 am
@revelette,
It's a shambles revel. And it was always going to be having started as a hysteria whipped up by Media and governments seeking to bury news about faltering economies brought about by cynical manipulations of electorates.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 10:48 am
@revelette,
That's a funny way to withdraw forces; that was considered ill-advised during the Iraq war, because that would only announce to the enemy how long they needed to wait before proceeding with their aggression.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 11:32 am
@revelette,
Quote:
American jets and warships are to be pulled away from Libya,


They are needed for rape and pillage missions elsewhere.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:12 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
They are needed for rape and pillage missions elsewhere.
Have you booked ahead ?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 08:00 pm
@Ionus,
The mention of rape just gets you salivating. You probably have the same reaction, that visceral excitement, when you hear of napalming villages, saturation/carpet bombing towns and cities, firebombing houses, people being tortured and murdered.

These brings back fond memories. Just makes ya wanna get out there and do it all again. Don't ya just love the smell of napalm in the morning.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:00 pm
I don't know how it is going to end, but right now, it does seem a mess.

No apology from Nato for air strike on Libyan rebel tanks

Quote:
Nato has refused to apologise for an attack on Libyan rebel forces in the east of the country in which at least five people were killed, saying it had not been told the rebels had tanks.

The attack on Wednesday between the towns of Brega and Ajdabiya killed at least five rebel fighters. Doctors reported up to 13 deaths. Armoured vehicles were destroyed.

A similar attack by Nato planes five days earlier killed a reported 10 rebel fighters, and this latest bombing has enraged those fighting Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

Rear Admiral Russ Harding, the British officer who is deputy commander of Nato's Libya operation, said the alliance's jets had carried out 318 sorties and struck 23 targets across Libya in the past 48 hours.

"It would appear that two of our strikes yesterday may have resulted in [rebel] deaths," he told reporters in Naples, where the operation is based.

"I am not apologising. The situation on the ground was and remains extremely fluid and until yesterday we did not have information that [rebel] forces are using tanks."

The tanks had been seized from Gaddafi's forces and were being used for the first time by the rebels, whose communications with Nato are patchy.

Harding said Nato's mission was to protect civilians from attack and "when you see their tanks coming up, those are the vehicles that can cause the greatest harm to civilians".

Later, Nato's secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said he "strongly regrets" the loss of life.

"We are conducting operations in Libya in accordance with the UN security council resolution with the aim to protect civilians. This is also the reason why our aircrafts target military equipment that could be used to attack civilians, but I can assure you that we do our utmost to avoid civilian casualties."

Wounded rebels were taken to Ajdabiya. A hospital nurse in the town told Reuters that at least five people had died, while the BBC quoted doctors putting the toll at 13.

Rebels outside Ajdabiya were painting their vehicles peach-coloured on Friday to try and make them distinctive from the air.

Rebel leaders are trying to find out whether troops loyal to Gaddafi took advantage of the chaos to move towards Ajdabiya. A reconnaissance party sent in the direction of Brega reportedly came under attack 12 miles from Ajdabiya, suggesting Gaddafi's forces had advanced.

The British Ministry of Defence is providing 500 satellite phones to help the rebels, who have already been given sophisticated communications equipment by the Foreign Office.

The equipment is designed to enable the rebels to communicate promptly and securely with British officials and Nato commanders. Britain is sending a fleet of armoured vehicles to eastern Libya to protect the UK delegation to the Transitional National Council headed by senior diplomat Christopher Prentice.

Pro-Gaddafi troops have pushed into eastern districts of Misrata, the beleaguered rebel-held outpost on Libya's north-west coast, triggering street battles with rebels that forced residents to flee, an opposition spokesman has told Reuters.

Hassan al-Misrati said: "They tried to advance and enter the city from the eastern side, from an area called Eqseer which is a populated area. The rebels confronted them and clashes are continuing."

Separately, a spokeswoman for the UN children's agency, Unicef, said snipers were targeting children. Marixie Mercado told reporters in Geneva that the organisation has received "reliable and consistent reports of children being among the people targeted by snipers in Misrata".

Rebels have appealed for more Nato assistance in clearing Gaddafi loyalists from Misrata, but the alliance says it is constrained in air strikes because of the presence of so many civilians.

Privately, some Nato officials say the rebels are failing to understand the alliance's limited mandate and mistake them for a proxy air force that can be directed at will. "We're trying to get messages back to them about what we're doing and what we're trying to achieve," one anonymous Nato official told the Associated Press.

On Thursday the US general who led the Libyan mission before Nato took it over said it was possible that American ground forces could eventually be used in the country.

"I suspect there might be some consideration [ of ground forces]. My personal view at this point would be that that's probably not the ideal circumstance, again for the regional reaction that having American boots on the ground would entail," General Carter Ham told a Senate armed services committee hearing.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:19 pm
@revelette,
It was a 'mess' when the US decided to get involved in Libya; it will get messier. That's a guarantee.

Civil wars are not decided by outside intervention. Look at Iraq; they still have suicide bombers that kills hundreds of people almost every month. That wars been going on for over a century. We spend our military and treasure there for what? Nonexistent WMDs.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Are you suggesting the US Government is completely stupid ci.?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:07 pm
@spendius,
If you're unable to decipher for yourself from my posts about the US involvement in wars, you're also too stupid!
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 04/09/2025 at 06:20:04