53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2011 06:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Remember all those years where it was claimed that Castro was going to be removed from power?


Yeah, by unsuccessful terrorist actions by the good ole law abiding US of A. Had you assholes [generically speaking about the depraved portion of the US population] been successful, the people of Cuba would have been plunged into another long term of excessive cruelty and brutality by your chosen dictator.

Whatever wealth was left would have been skimmed off to make some filthy filthy rich yankees even richer. A large chunk would, of course, have gone to the dictator du jour and eventually, that wealth would be siphoned off to the US.

What's so amazing is that you assholes keep talking about these things with no sense of shame whatsoever when you are the very scum that have caused a large number of these problems.

By the by, I wonder what ole Occom Bill would be doing if he was still around. Do you think he would have joined in these hypocritical games y'all like to play or would he have kept his mouth shut?
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2011 07:04 pm
Libya: Rebels fear a no-fly zone will come too late

Quote:
Everyone here is puzzled as to how many casualties the international community judges to be enough for them to help. Maybe we should start committing suicide to reach the required number
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2011 07:29 pm
@Irishk,
Irish, That one took me by surprise. I believe they are very cynical for good reason.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:40 am
@Irishk,
One might say that taking up arms against Gadaffi's regime is a form of attempted suicide which not that many Libyans have tried. There are 6.4 million Libyans most of whom are keeping their heads down despite the efforts of the intrepid reporters to suggest otherwise in order to give themselves significance and boost their careers.

Did you see the Japanese guy who objected to the reporters ghoulishly filming his country at such a time as this. It was even suggested last night that the baby which survived three days in the floods was either a miracle or a stunt to provide some cheer to the desperate gloom. Was the reporter and his camera crew and light and sound team eating food which the locals need?

Has our voyeurism gone too far?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 11:52 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Has our voyeurism gone too far?


I doubt that we have even approached its limits.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 12:21 pm
@revelette,
You forget the other half of the population - females. Revolutions and civil wars are male dominated affairs. Most Muslims are misogynistic and if Gadaffi goes so goes women's rights. All women would have to wear niqabs or burkhas. The Saudi Wahhabis exploit the poor. The mosques accepts abandoned kids whose parents are too poor and these kids are taken care of and indoctirinated with Wahhabi fundamentalism - becoming the future cannon fodder for their jihads.

The Middle east has a poor model for government which are usually caliphs or sultans who were absolute monarchs. Whoever gets in charge adopts that attitude. Pleasuring themselves instead of educating the masses for democracy to work.

However, the American democracy is not the best model as the populace is poorly educated. They are given tunnel vision education and the classroom sizes are increasing to 50 studentws per teacher. The University professors are can't teach. They give hall lectures attended by 1,000 students and leave the classes to be taken care of by grad students who have no training in teaching. GWB, one of the worst presidents was voted in twice and created this world recession.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 02:51 pm
@talk72000,
Yes--but as long as the teachers and the professors hand out certificates of excellence in appropriately dignified and sacred ceremonies to the approved students which give them an "in" into well paid jobs, and allow the teachers and professors and the business they work in to bask in admiration for having a high pass rate, the essential function and honour is satisfied with the minimum of effort all round.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 04:34 pm
@spendius,
The system suffers as they can't make proper decisions. Look at how much damage GWB has done to America and the world. Before the Bush family America was an even handed observer in the Middle east but with the Bush family personal vendetta became an art form above national priority risking American lives and money. The two gulf wars cost maybe $1 trillion.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 04:40 pm
@talk72000,
The war in Afghanistan is still on-going costing billions every week, and we still have support groups in Iraq; all started by GW Bush.
hingehead
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 05:54 pm
Source

Bahrain raises the stakes by bringing in Saudi forces

By Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

Bahrain is at a tipping point. By inviting in 1,500 Saudi and Emirati troops to help restore order the ruling al-Khalifa family have dramatically raised the stakes in the tiny Gulf kingdom.

It is a controversial and somewhat desperate measure as Bahrain's own police and security forces have shown themselves patently incapable of handling the anti-government protests to date.

It follows a series of behind-closed-doors conversations between key figures in each of those countries on how to contain the crisis.

This has resulted in what Gulf rulers would like to present as almost an "internal family matter", with one or other fraternal country helping out another. In practice, it is unprecedented and potentially highly inflammatory. So how has it gone down with the various interested parties?

The protesters

Opposition leaders have been quick to condemn this variously as "an invasion", "an occupation", and "an act of war". The protesters fear they will now be subject to excessive violence by foreign troops. They do not accept the government's premise that the troops have been called in to guard key sites like oil storage depots, pointing out that they have not attacked those.

Social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook have been blazing with angry comments like this one on Tuesday: "Is it fair to say the first war ever waged in Bahrain's history was against its own peaceful citizens?"

Bahrain's rulers

The ruling al-Khalifa family and state media have put out a number of statements saying this was a necessary measure to restore law and order.

The night before the Saudi troops went in, a government official told the BBC: "The situation needs to be stabilised as this is getting out of control. Hopefully rule of law can be enforced and talks [with opposition leaders] can get under way."

There is almost certainly a divergence of views within the ruling family. After seven protesters were killed last month, it was the crown prince's personal intervention that led to security forces being withdrawn, and a search for dialogue and compromise intensified.

But there are others within the family who take a tougher line, fearing that unless these protests are put down ruthlessly their entire dynasty could be at stake.

Saudi Arabia's rulers

A number of analysts believe that Bahrain had little choice but to invite in Saudi troops, with Saudi Arabia's authoritarian rulers adamant that the unrest had to be stopped before it spilled over into Saudi's Shia-dominated and oil-producing Eastern Province.

There has been some minor unrest there already but nothing compared to what could erupt if neighbouring Bahrain saw a full-scale Shia revolution. Saudi Arabia is Bahrain's closest Gulf ally and the two countries frequently act in concert.

Iran

Iran has called the deployment of Saudi troops to Bahrain "unacceptable". Bahrain has responded by effectively saying "mind your own business" and has withdrawn its ambassador to Tehran in protest. The Bahraini government has long suspected Iran of trying to foment a "fifth column" of subversives in Bahrain, but its critics say this is just an excuse to round up its domestic opponents.

Other Bahrainis

While many Bahrainis have been appalled and alarmed at the arrival of foreign troops, others, perhaps bizarrely, have breathed a sigh of relief. They are hoping it will spell an end to the protesters' illegal and sometimes intimidating checkpoints that have sprung up around the country, paralysing business and choking off the economy.

Bahrainis complain of gangs of local Shia youths manning these checkpoints, demanding to see people's ID cards, and turning back anyone who is from the Sunni minority.

This, however, pales next to the mounting reports of horrific casualties suffered by protesters as they are brought into hospitals.

Many want nothing more than an elected parliament with full executive powers but others are being radicalised by the violence into demanding the departure of the king and perhaps the entire ruling family.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:15 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
BBC security correspondent


That's a good one hinge.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:15 pm
@hingehead,
I could only wish that the world would stand up as one people and demand their freedom of property rights and be forgiven of all debts and start a new start!

I do realize that those who have been taught the same psychopathic teachings that I have been, "Will put up a stiff resistance but they should be crushed and anyone that thinks that they are worth more than your or my mother should be taken care of in a humane way if possible and be separated from society!
When I say humane I am referring to how you would treat the one you love the most!

I bet that you thought that you heard it all until you read this! LOL
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:20 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I could only wish that the world would stand up as one people and demand their freedom of property rights and be forgiven of all debts and start a new start!


Bugger that. My bank owes me a lot of dough. I lent it to them on the strict understanding that debts are not forgiven. Are you completely mad rl or are you taking the piss?
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:30 pm
@spendius,
I could only guess that I have way, way, way, more. "than you could ever dream of losing Spendius!
talk72000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 06:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Amen. Good word even though I am not religious. Wink Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 07:13 pm
@spendius,
I rather admire the way "freedom of property rights" and "forgiven of all debts" are neatly combined into one sentence.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 06:17 am
Gaddafi troops assault rebel-held Libyan town Ajdabiya

Libyan rebels have denied claims that pro-Gaddafi forces have taken Ajdabiya - the last town before their headquarters in Benghazi.

The BBC's Jon Leyne in Benghazi says that, after heavy bombardment, government soldiers have made their first ground assault on the town.

The advance by troops loyal to Libya's leader comes ahead of the UN Security Council discussing a no-fly zone.

The UK, France and Lebanon have called for this in a draft resolution.

Rebel leaders want the international community to prevent pro-Gaddafi forces from using aircraft against them.

However, countries such as the US, Russia, China and Germany are understood to harbour doubts about imposing a no-fly zone. Some are wary of foreign military intervention in the conflict.

The Arab League has backed the idea but Tuesday's meeting of G8 foreign ministers in Paris failed to do so.

Pro-Gaddafi forces are also reported to again be shelling Misrata - the only western city in rebel hands.

"Very heavy bombardments are taking place now from three sides. They are using heavy weapons including tanks and artillery. They have yet to enter the town," a resident called Mohammed, told the Reuters news agency by telephone.
Massacre feared

Col Muammar Gaddafi's allies say they are now in control of Ajdabiya but rebel leaders say the assault was repelled.
Continue reading the main story
map

* Protesters on Libyan embassy roof
* Diplomatic options
* Is a no-fly zone possible?

Ajdabiya is 160km (100 miles) from Benghazi, Libya's second city, and also controls the road to the Egyptian border.

Our correspondent says the situation in Benghazi is getting more tense by the hour and the calls for a no-fly zone more desperate.

Jalal al-Gallal of the National Libyan Transitional Council said that there would be a "massacre" if the international community did not intervene.

"He [Gaddafi] will kill civilians, he will kill dreams, he will destroy us," he told the BBC.

Col Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam told Euronews TV that: "Everything will be over in 48 hours" even if a no-fly zone is imposed.

But our correspondent says that government announcements that an attack on Benghazi is about to begin appear to be propaganda designed to unnerve the opposition.

Even if Ajdabiya falls, the government does not seem to have enough troops in the field to attack the city of one million people, he says.

However, medical aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) on Wednesday announced that it was pulling its staff out of Benghazi due to the heavy fighting.

It said it would continue to send supplies to health facilities in Libya.
Gaddafi speech upside-down

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe on Wednesday used his blog to condemn the slow response of the international community to the situation in Libya.

"Only the threat of force can stop Gaddafi. It is by bombarding, with the few dozen planes and helicopters he really has, his opponents' positions that the Libyan dictator has turned the balance," he wrote.

We can/could neutralise his airborne means by targeted strikes."

He also said that several - unnamed - Arab nations were prepared to take part in such action.

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini, however, ruled out military intervention, according to Reuters.

"We cannot have war, the international community should not, does not want and cannot do it," he told a hearing of a parliamentary commission in the Senate.

Italy, which ruled Libya for three decades, has close relations with Col Gaddafi.

On Tuesday, there was fierce fighting around Brega. The oil town has changed hands several times over recent days and reports have suggested the rebels have lost control.

Meanwhile, in a TV speech, Col Gaddafi taunted the UK and France.

"Britain no longer exists. It is a trace of what it used to be. It has been promoting attack on Libya. Is there a common border between us? Are you our guardian? By what right?" he said.

He went on to "dare" the US, Britain and France to "give their people freedom like I did to the Libyan people".

Our correspondent says the defiant speech was projected upside-down onto a big screen in the main square of Benghazi.

He says people threw shoes at the screen in a traditional expression of their contempt for Col Gaddafi.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 06:24 am
Our PM just said (2 minutes ago) that he is not arguing that a no fly zone is a simple answer to the problem in Libya. In the House of Commons. Cynical groans were heard.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 07:04 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I could only guess that I have way, way, way, more. "than you could ever dream of losing Spendius!


That has a distinctly feminine tone rl.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 10:43 am
Gadhafi son: 'Everything will be over in 48 hours'
Quote:
Europe and the United States, meanwhile, were tossing back and forth the question of whether to impose a no-fly zone that the opposition has pleaded for.
 

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