53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 01:13 pm
@talk72000,
Balanced against his killing innocent and peaceful demonstrators still makes him an unstable, sick in the head, tyrant. Your attempts to make him look human is not justified.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 01:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I would think the big 64 thousand dollar question would be whether invasion is justified where the leader of the country defies human rights and continues to kill their own people. How long is the world community supposed to sit it out and wait?


Your statement implies that the "international community" has a coherent view of the situation; agrees on what should be done; and is willing to act at all. The observable fact is that none of these elements are true.

No one is "holding back" the international community. It is and long has been indesisive and unwilling to either agree or react. It is worth remembering that this same "international community" approved Ghadaffis' government's membership in the UN Human Rights Commission.

Equally bad events have occurred - and are still occurring in other countries, ranging from Zimbabwe to Iran and Tibet. The "international community" has stedfastly held back from concrete action on them, and there is every reason to believe they will not reach agreement on a coherent path forward in this case.

It is merely ironic that many of the calls for intervention are coming from precisely the same sources that so vociferously condemned the US intervention in Iran - which did indeed follow even worse crimes by Saddam against his owen people. My point here is these situations are far more comples and involve far more side effects than the protagonists and antagonists usually acknowledge.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 01:34 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
No one is "holding back" the international community. It is and long has been indesisive and unwilling to either agree or react. It is worth remembering that this same "international community" approved Ghadaffis' government's membership in the UN Human Rights Commission.
Russia and China pretty much assure that nothing will happen, as both have reason to be concerned if international insertion into the affairs with-in nations gets any worse.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 01:35 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah, I agree; it's useless. For all intent and purposes, there is no such thing as an international community.

As I've said all along, I do not wish to see the US get involved in any of these crisis; we are not the world's police.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:08 pm
Quote:
President Obama warned Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and his aides today that they will be held accountable for war crimes, and that the U.S. and NATO are considering possible responses that include potential military action.

"We've got NATO as we speak consulting in Brussels around a wide range of potential options, including potential military options, in response to the violence that continues to take place inside of Libya," Obama told reporters after a meeting with Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

Obama did not specify any of those options -- such as the much-discussed proposal to establish a no-fly zone over Libya -- but said he wanted "to send a very clear message to those who are around Col. Gadhafi."

"It is their choice to make how they operate moving forward and they will be held accountable for whatever violence continues to take place there," Obama said.


source

Quote:
President Obama isn't taking any options off the table with respect to Libya -- including military options -- but spokesman Jay Carney did say today that sending ground troops "is not the at the top of the list at this point."

Closer to the top: A no-fly zone over Libya and the possibility of arming Libyan rebels, though Carney said the United States wants to act in concert with allies at NATO and the United Nations.

"We are being very careful about how we go about this process," Carney said.

Carney spoke amid reports that the United States is asking Saudi Arabia to supply weapons to rebels battling the forces of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

The White House spokesman did not comment on the reports, but said, "the option of providing military assistance to the rebels is on the table."

The Libyan uprising is less than a month old, Carney said, and many of the options under discussion can't be put in place overnight, including any supply of arms to rebels: "I think that it would be premature to send a bunch of weapons to a post office box in eastern Libya."

Setting up a no-fly zone is also time-consuming and complex, Carney said, adding that they might not do much good with low-flying helicopters.

"We need to not get ahead of ourselves in terms of the options we're pursuing," Carney said.

Noting that the Libyan uprising began less than a month ago, Carney praised the speed of the international community in slapping sanctions on Gadhafi's government, and in providing humanitarian assistance to Libyan rebels.


"I would simply say that the international community, with the United States in the lead, has moved with incredible rapidity to address the situation in Libya and continues to deal with this with great urgency," Carney said.




source
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:14 pm
@revelette,
Speak loudly strongly and carry a flyswatter. Rhetorical threats , unaccompanied by real and detectable intent & preparation for action are, in most cases, positively harmful. They demonstrate a lack of seriousness and real intent - the actions of amateurs.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:19 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

What I post may cloud the issue even more. In Egypt the protesters sexually abused a CBS female correspondent. Muslims are misogynistic. Gadhafi has promoted women rights and has a female guard regent protecting him.


I thought the sexual abuse allegations were withdrawn?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:20 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
They demonstrate a lack of seriousness and real intent - the actions of amateurs.
Which is one of the big reasons we ended up in the Iraq misadventure, because after so long talking so big but doing little, particularly Clinton, we had to put up or shut up. That gained us some credibility for awhile, but we are now back where we started or worse if you add in the incompetence and willingness to torture that was the take away from the occupation of Iraq.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I just saw the dvd "Mexico - frozen Revolution". It showed the Mexican and other South American dictators fired on protestors. 400 were killed in Mexico and Pinochet did more. The Ladinos kicked out the Spanish but they in turn pushed out he indigenous Indians into extreme poverty. The Mexican Revolution gave the land to the pheasants but provided no help in any other way. All business had to be done thru the Mexican government and the pheasants were ripped off. The middle class were all Ladinos (descendants of the Spanish of mixed race).

I can't say Gadhafi is a saint but no one is purely evil nor good. Gadhafi may be darker than grey. I just want to point out that it should be left to the Libyans to deter mine their fate and not interfere for you are not sure who the bigger devil is.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:26 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
- the actions of amateurs.


Being given the run around by Media. But hardly amateurs. Brass band conductors more like.

Gadaffi claims he is fighting AQ. terrorists and revolutionaries and is trying to keep Libya from fragmenting. He's also claiming we are only interested in Libyan oil. The civilian deaths, innocent of course, are "collateral damage" no different from all those women and children in droned Pakistani villages.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:28 pm
Hitchens weighs in - calls Gaddafi an 'evil creep' and disses the entire U.S. Sixth Fleet
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:35 pm
@talk72000,
Pheasants have a long history of being badly treated. So much so that one might think it is what they were evolved for.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:35 pm
@Irishk,
Hitchens has said many things of late that indicate that he is not aware of the vastly deflated status of America in the world. People like Obama, but they dont respect him because he is personally not interested in the world and he leads a nation which has both little interest in the world nor any longer the power to impose its will upon others. The Great Recession, specifically our cause of it through our flawed global economic and political polices, nailed that coffin shut.

Mocking Obama, while understandable, is not helpful.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hitchens hasn't been the same since 9/11.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 02:48 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Hitchens hasn't been the same since 9/11
I had not noticed that,but I did notice the disconnect between his beliefs and reality after he got sick. I assumed that it was change of focus and lack of time that caused it, but it would not surprise me if you are correct.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 03:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Mocking Obama, while understandable, is not helpful.

I didn't come away with the impression that Hitchens was 'mocking' the president so much as it was his way of trying to goad the administration into more aggressive action. Or, at least make his opinion known that he thinks it's the right thing to do in this case.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 03:04 pm
@Irishk,


I read the article but didn't see the "dissing of the Sixth Fleet" to which you referred.

The fact is we no longer have any ships in the Sixth Fleet - just a flagship and an Admiral. I believe a helo carrier is enroute, but that's not enough to do much but evacuate people or perhaps insert clandestine forces.

Our carriers are all in the Persian Gulf; off the coast of Pakistan or in the Arabian Sea chasing pirates.

Perhaps Msolga will have some suggestions for us.

engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 03:15 pm
@georgeob1,
Hitchens in Slate Magazine article wrote:
But the pilots of Qaddafi's own air force, who flew their planes to Malta rather than let themselves be used against civilians, have demonstrated more courage and principle than the entire U.S. Sixth Fleet.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 03:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Whatever the character of the successor system turns out to be, it can hardly be worsened if we show it positive signs of friendship and solidarity. But the pilots of Qaddafi's own air force, who flew their planes to Malta rather than let themselves be used against civilians, have demonstrated more courage and principle than the entire U.S. Sixth Fleet.


After reading that passage a second time, I don't think he was 'dissing' the Sixth Fleet so much as perhaps suggesting they might follow the actions of the Libyan pilots and act without authorization. Hard to know exactly.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 03:22 pm
@Irishk,
Probably, but it is clear his inclinations to offer judgements and opinions were far greater than is interest in the relevant facts.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 01/23/2025 at 08:41:42