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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The thread said that the army doesn't matter. What difference does it make what it does or doesn't do if it doesn't matter? Where's your logic?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:29 pm
@spendius,
The real logic is the fact in the capital city, the army is shooting at demonstrators.

Your ability at logic is non-existent.
dyslexia
 
  5  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

The army in Libya is defecting, and supporting the pro-democracy movement. It's only a matter of time.
The army of Libya has been intentionally kept small and ineffective by Colonel Gaddafi because his coup to power was from the army. On the other hand the brigades led by his sons are highly trained and well-armed. The taking of Tripoli by a "liberation army" is far more likely to be a blood-bath than a simple stepping-aside by Gaddafi. But that's just my opinion, obviously others posting here have more better information.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:31 pm
@dyslexia,
We're talking about those army units outside of Tripoli. It makes a big difference that they are supporting the pro-democracy demonstrators, and not against them.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
dense.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's terrific that they're doing so, but the army in Libya is not as significant a factor as it was in some other countries - for the reason pointed out by dys.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:34 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I wouldn't mind arguing the point that that word is meant as a slap against masculinity...in league with mild, subtle comments made about her...in response.


Only big-girl's blouses bother about slaps. The rest of think they are goadings.


Very Happy
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 01:05 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The good things in our lives are spoiled by knowing how they were obtained.


Worthy of a sigline.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 01:10 pm
@dyslexia,
I may be dense, but you're a ******* bastard! I prefer dense any day.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
As a matter of fact, CNN is now showing the Libyan army switching sides to the pro-democracy because it's not important.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The real logic is the fact in the capital city, the army is shooting at demonstrators.


The whole point is that the army is not the security structure and was never trusted in the first place. The security structure is drawn from Gadaffi's tribe. The army isn't.

You use one word to mean another whenever you fancy and you don't know the first thing about Libya apart from maybe it being a good place to have your photograph taken and be one more ticked off of the countries you have on your visiting list.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:30 pm
@spendius,
It doesn't matter if they were trusted or not; they're not shooting at the demonstrators. That's the top and bottom of the issue.

We're talking about current events.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:46 pm
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14867583,00.html

Quote:
"Libyan society is shaped by tribal culture. Many people are primarily loyal to their own tribe and not to the state," Ziad Aql, a Libya expert at the Cairo-based Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies, told Deutsche Welle's Arabic service.

"There's a clear split within the Libyan army," Aql said. He pointed out that the army is largely headed by members of President Gadhafi's tribe with Gadhafi's son, Mutassem Gadhafi, responsible for the country's internal security. On the other hand, he added, many foot soldiers belong to the Tarruna tribe which has taken the side of the demonstrators.



Quote:
"So there are two camps in the army - one that follows Gadhafi's commands and shoots at demonstrators. And another camp that refuses to follow his instructions and either flees with their weapons or joins the demonstrators," Aql said.

Aql warned there was a danger that the simmering tensions among the various factions within the army could come to a head.

"There are indications that parts of the army that belong to Gadhafi's tribe will remain loyal to him. That has sparked concern that we could see violent battles within the army," Aql said.

There are concerns that the unrest in Libya could turn into a full-fledged civil war and analysts say that a future without Gadhafi looks ominous. His four decades of one-man rule has left the country without any national institutions - unlike in Egypt where the army has been a pillar of society.

"The Libyan regime lacks institutions in all sectors," Aql said. "Gadhafi rules the country as he likes. And that's how he's controlled the army too."

Some worry that Libya also lacks a civil society framework as is evident in Egypt or leading intellectuals as seen in Tunisia, many of whom have lived in France for decades.

"We can't rule out a civil war if Gadhafi were to go," Steinbach said. "Without any functioning institutions, there will just be a black hole."
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:48 pm
A article from the AP a few hours ago notes:
^ French planes have started bringing in humanitarian workers and supplies to Benghazi. Many refugees, mostly laborers from sub-Saharan countries, are trapped at the border.
^ U.S. based forces in the Mediterranean Sea are positioning closer to Libya.
^ British PM David Cameron says he is working with allies on establishing a military no fly zone in Libya. Such an action would probably require U.N. approval, which is not a certainty at this point.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:54 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth, That the article states that a civil war is more likely than not without the same civil machinery in place as they have in Egypt, that's something that is important enough for consideration. What would happen if Gaddafi left Libya? Will that change anything?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:55 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
military no fly zone in Libya
would that not be equated to a military invasion of a sovereign nation?
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:57 pm
@dyslexia,
Yes, I think it would be Dys. That is probably why there was the comment suggesting it might not get U.N. approval.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 03:15 pm
@ehBeth,
Beth quoted--

Quote:
"We can't rule out a civil war if Gadhafi were to go," Steinbach said. "Without any functioning institutions, there will just be a black hole."


Which supporters of the protesters will have some responsibilty for if it comes to that.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 03:40 pm
@spendius,
there is something to be said for the idea of feeding the starving just enough to get to the day when we stop feeding them and they die, we can be said to be prolonging their life.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 04:06 pm
@dyslexia,
Yes dys but the idea that those supporting the protesters were more concerned about the deaths so far that those who were unsure it was the best way forward is not only self-congratulatory but a diabolical liberty. And the easy option as well.
0 Replies
 
 

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