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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 02:19 pm
@spendius,
Thank you.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 02:36 pm
Hitchens is not a fan of the Obama method here
Quote:
This is not merely a matter of the synchronizing of announcements. The Obama administration also behaves as if the weight of the United States in world affairs is approximately the same as that of Switzerland. We await developments. We urge caution, even restraint. We hope for the formation of an international consensus. And, just as there is something despicable about the way in which Swiss bankers change horses, so there is something contemptible about the way in which Washington has been affecting—and perhaps helping to bring about—American impotence. Except that, whereas at least the Swiss have the excuse of cynicism, American policy manages to be both cynical and naive
.
.
.

Unless the administration seriously envisages a future that includes the continued private ownership of Libya and its people by Qaddafi and his terrible offspring, it's a sheer matter of prudence and realpolitik, to say nothing of principle, to adopt a policy that makes the opposite assumption. Libya is—in point of population and geography—mainly a coastline. The United States, with or without allies, has unchallengeable power in the air and on the adjacent waters. It can produce great air lifts and sea lifts of humanitarian and medical aid, which will soon be needed anyway along the Egyptian and Tunisian borders, and which would purchase undreamed-of goodwill. It has the chance to make up for its pointless, discredited tardiness with respect to events in Cairo and Tunis. It also has a president who has shown at least the capacity to deliver great speeches on grand themes. Instead, and in the crucial and formative days in which revolutions are decided, we have had to endure the futile squawkings of a cuckoo clock.
http://www.slate.com/id/2286522/

Though he seems to expect a lot out of a country that required a week to remove 300 citizens from Libya.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 03:06 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
OK, I like that the ICC is going to see if they have any power - but why are they so brave about ramrod-ing Qaddafi - but casting a blind eye to the same things that happened in Egypt?


The protest in Libya seem on a different scale in terms of violence than did Egypt and Tunesia.

Quote:
Hundreds of thousands poured out of mosques and staged protests across the Arab world Friday, some trying to shake off autocratic rulers and others pressuring embattled leaders to carry out sweeping reforms.

In the Libyan capital of Tripoli, protesters reported coming under a hail of bullets and said they saw at least seven people killed. In Iraq, troops opened fire in several cities to push back crowds marching on government offices, killing at least 12. Scuffles were reported in Yemen, while pro-reform marches in Egypt, Bahrain and Jordan were largely peaceful.

The large crowds signaled that the push for change in North Africa and the Middle East continues to build momentum. The first anti-government protests erupted several weeks ago, toppling rulers in Tunisia and Egypt and quickly spreading to other countries.

The situation remained most volatile in Libya, where longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi has cracked down hard on an 11-day-old rebellion after losing control over large chunks of the country.

In Tripoli, where Gadhafi remains in charge, protesters staged the first significant anti-government rallies in several days, trying to march from several districts to the central Green Square.

Protesters said they came under fire from pro-Gadhafi militias. One man among a crowd of thousands said gunmen on rooftops and in the streets opened fire with automatic weapons and even an anti-aircraft gun. "In the first wave of fire, seven people within 10 meters (yards) of me were killed. Many people were shot in the head," the man, who was marching from Tripoli's eastern Tajoura district, told The Associated Press. "It was really like we are dogs."

Across cities that have come under control of the rebels, tens of thousands held rallies to support their comrades in Tripoli.




source
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 03:15 pm
@Lash,
His name was Benjamin Barber.

"Saudi Arabia has money in every American university (so why--garbled-- but meaning why is there) " no response to this regime (which is) connected to AQ and that doesn't recognise the rights of women."

Not that I think that SA doesn't respect the rights of women in its own way.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 03:19 pm
Quote:
TRIPOLI, Libya — The United States said on Friday it was imposing sanctions and cutting diplomatic ties with Libya as Moammar Gaddafi's security forces stepped up efforts to crush a widening revolt against his rule.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said the United States had suspended embassy operations in Tripoli and withdrawn staff. Washington was also moving ahead with sanctions that would be coordinated with allies and others.

Carney said Gaddafi's legitimacy had been "reduced to zero" and he had lost the confidence of the Libyan people.

Fears for the safety of the Americans had tempered President Barack Obama's response to the crisis, forcing him to adopt a more cautious approach until U.S. citizens were out of harm's way.

The announcement came as hundreds of Americans were being evacuated from Libya via boat and plane. Aferry chartered by the U.S. government arrived safely at the Mediterranean island of Malta Friday evening, while a U.S.-chartered aircraft carrying U.S. citizens and other foreigners departed from Libya's chaotic airport.

Carney said Obama will meet with the United Nations secretary general in Washington Monday to discuss the situation in Libya. More
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:03 pm
@JPB,
The Americans getting out leaving thousands from other countries milling about the exit points is real life Darwinianism.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:11 pm
@Lash,
I'll watch the whole thing tomorrow Lash. It's quite interesting. It provides glimpses.

Did you see that team of wild protesters who were doing 360 degree spins with the commandeered tank they were joy-riding in. That was a glimpse of what the ones not cowering in their houses are like.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:16 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The Americans getting out leaving thousands from other countries milling about the exit points is real life Darwinianism.


We had news reports here yesterday of Brits being evacuated on a Royal Navy vessel. To my knowledge we haven't done that.

To what are you referring?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:17 pm
@spendius,
We've already lost plenty of citizens in our own revolutions and civil wars...no need to stand around and get shot in someone else's...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:22 pm
@georgeob1,
To this from JPB's quote--

Quote:
Fears for the safety of the Americans had tempered President Barack Obama's response to the crisis, forcing him to adopt a more cautious approach until U.S. citizens were out of harm's way.


Next to this--

Quote:
Carney said Gaddafi's legitimacy had been "reduced to zero"
. Which is not very "cautious".
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:26 pm
@spendius,
I imagine Carney made that statement after the Americans made their exit.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:28 pm
@spendius,
I generally agree with the president's so-called "cautious" approach to public commentary on these matters. My reasons have to do with the consequences of inflated bluster and implications of actions we don't really intend to take - as we have already discussed.

The truth is I don't really know the President's motives, but am willing to assume he understands what he is doing. Overall his pronouncements and those of minor officials in our government haven't been very different in character from those of their counterparts in the UK, France, Germany or even in (gasp ! ) Msolga's perfect home in Australia.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:30 pm
@georgeob1,
Speaking with one voice usually works with government heads, but not with people like Gaddafi who is mentally imbalanced.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Since when have "mentally imbalanced" people been disqualified from running countries. I feel pretty sure that if I was running the US I would loop the ******* loop.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:25 pm
@spendius,
Most leaders don't kill their own citizens when they peacefully demonstrate.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:39 pm
@spendius,
You may be speaking in absolutes but I could be wrong!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 08:52 pm
@revelette,
You seem to have a problem, not only with cliches, but with intelligent interpretation.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 08:58 pm
@Rockhead,
And here, for the first, and last time, I will come to the defense of JTT.

He and I, no matter how foul our (read: his) thoughts may be, are many levels above the idicocracy of an Easter Island Icon.

JTT is utterly repugnant, but he is, by no means, stupid.

Not so other A2K monumental morons.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 08:59 pm
@spendius,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street!
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 11:06 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
We've already lost plenty of citizens in our own revolutions and civil wars...no need to stand around and get shot in someone else's...


Damn tootin'! The resources aren't going anywhere. You can always come back and rape and pillage another day.
 

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