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Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 10:52 pm
A good and long perspective here



Quote:
You see, growing up in a home like Chua's was no piece of cake, and although I'm close to 40 now, I still bear wounds that haven't healed.

I believe that Chua's abusive parenting is motivated by her own unhappiness. How do I know this? My father told me so. He's the man whose tiger-infused parenting produced the catch phrase that became the title of my memoir, I Love Yous Are for White People.

The only difference between Chua's and my father's parenting technique is that Chua never laid a hand on her daughters (as far as we know).


All the same, Chua's modus operandi is to keep her daughters in check via the emotional mind game -- brain-washing, derision, negative reinforcement, and reverse psychology
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/20/lac.su.tiger.mother.scars/index.html?hpt=C2
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 11:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
mother superior jumped the gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5j-S6Eq81g

don't you know that happiness is a warm gun

0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 11:57 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success.

There must be hundreds of millions of Chinese moms in the world. My prejudice is that they're as different from each other as the hundreds of millions of American moms are. It will take more than a bestselling screed from one of them---and an especially neurotic one at that---to override this prejudice.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:00 pm
Those tiger moms might be doing something right. According to the latest Bureau of Labor Standards report, Asians enjoy the lowest unemployment rate among Whites, Blacks or Hispanics.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:13 pm
@Irishk,
Well, that would be because they're not among Whites, Blacks, or Hispanics.

;P
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:15 pm
@DrewDad,
Yeah...I realized I worded that awkwardly just as I hit the 'Reply' button. Do that a lot ... Embarrassed
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:22 pm
@Irishk,
I'm sure everyone knows what you mean ...
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:29 pm
@Linkat,
I didn't have the benefit of a tiger mom...damn!
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:30 pm
@Irishk,
Thus the emoticon with the tongue sticking out.

Razz

Looks like I screwed up and used the wrong punctuation, though.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2011 01:30 pm
@DrewDad,
Are you Irish, by any chance??? Smile
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 12:48 pm
Quote:
Hi everybody!

It's Sophia, the older tiger cub. I've decided to start a blog. Don't tell the Tiger Mom!!

Anyways. Although according to the ever-charming internet I'm already a freshman at Dartmouth, I'm actually an eighteen-year-old high school senior. And this morning, the internet told me I've "made up my mind" to attend Harvard next year.

To set the record straight, I applied to three schools last fall: Yale, Harvard, and University of Virginia. I was accepted to Yale under Early Action in December. I withdrew my application from UVA, and I was accepted to Harvard this Wednesday. I was shocked and thrilled to receive both acceptances, and I'm seriously considering both Yale and Harvard. Ashley's or J.P. Licks...Toad's or The T...tough call (although I am a huge fan of subways). I'll keep you posted.

In the meantime: if you're reading this, leave me a comment with questions, advice, or trolling. I can't wait.

xoxo tiger cub (not a Gossip Girl reference...I don't watch TV, remember?

Quote:
Q: Why did you decide to start this blog?
A: When the whole world’s calling you a mindless robot, you kind of get the urge to start talking! Even though "Sophia" in the book is much more impressive than Sophia in real life. I think I’m sullying my impeccable image one post at a time, but so be it.

Q: So does Tiger Mom ever go Garfield (read: feel lazy)?
A: Absolutely...she has a ridiculous amount of energy, but eventually she burns out and collapses in bed. She’ll be like, "Sophia, get me my water bottle!" when it’s on her bedside table.


Q: I think many of people who read your mum's book wouldn't know satire if it hit them in the face. Do you feel the same?
A: It’s despicable to suggest her book is satirical, and I’m deeply traumatized. If you lay awake every night weeping over the charred remains of your stuffed animals, you’d be traumatized too. [edit: for the love of god, people, I'M KIDDING]

Q: What is it like getting up in the morning and getting ready for school with the tiger mom? Is it pretty hectic over there?
A: Lulu is the real tiger mom in the morning. I’d sleep through lunch every day if she didn’t drag me out of bed.

Q: What is your expectation of college life?
A: Sleep all day, rave all night. Learn by osmosis.

Q: Do you often go shopping with tiger mom?
A: There’s not much to buy in New Haven. Well, groceries. My mom knows how much I like driving (I have a license but no car), and she milks it. "Sophia!" She dangles the Jeep keys in front of my face. "You can drive to....STOP & SHOP!!!!" I take the bait every time.

Q: If your mother prevented you from going on play dates, sleep overs and participating in school dramas, shouldn't you have turned out to be socially incapable?
A: Thanks for asking – I’ve wanted to address this point since David Brooks published his op-Ed in the NYT. Let me indulge my not-so-inner nerd for a second: when you spend 7 hours at school a day, 180 days a year, for 13 years, you rack up 16,380 hours of social interaction. That’s the equivalent of over 3,200 five-hour playdates. So overall, I don’t feel too deprived.

Q: How do your friends and classmates feel about the situation?
A: My classmates, friends, and boyfriend have been the absolute best. When the people you know and like are on your side, it matters a lot less what angry strangers think. But NICE strangers’ opinions are super-super-important. They can/should be voiced in the comments section below :]


http://tigersophia.blogspot.com/

I thinking the "poor poor girls" storyline has been oversold. What, you can back big demands on your kids and have them turn out bubbly and claiming to be happy? Who knew!
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 08:24 am
@Linkat,
Interesting article about what happens to the children of Tiger Moms.... http://nymag.com/print/?/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/

The article talks a lot about racism and "the bamboo ceiling" but the writer takes it a step further to discuss cultural competence and problems of tiger parenting...

Quote:
Maybe it is simply the case that a traditionally Asian upbringing is the problem. As Allyn points out, in order to be a leader, you must have followers. Associates at Pricewaterhouse­Coopers are initially judged on how well they do the work they are assigned. “You have to be a doer,” as she puts it. They are expected to distinguish themselves with their diligence, at which point they become “super-doers.” But being a leader requires different skill sets. “The traits that got you to where you are won’t necessarily take you to the next level,” says the diversity consultant Jane Hyun, who wrote a book called Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling. To become a leader requires taking personal initiative and thinking about how an organization can work differently. It also requires networking, self-promotion, and self-assertion. It’s racist to think that any given Asian individual is unlikely to be creative or risk-taking. It’s simple cultural observation to say that a group whose education has historically focused on rote memorization and “pumping the iron of math” is, on aggregate, unlikely to yield many people inclined to challenge authority or break with inherited ways of doing things.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 09:03 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
Maybe it is simply the case that a traditionally Asian upbringing is the problem. As Allyn points out, in order to be a leader, you must have followers. Associates at Pricewaterhouse­Coopers are initially judged on how well they do the work they are assigned. “You have to be a doer,” as she puts it. They are expected to distinguish themselves with their diligence, at which point they become “super-doers.” But being a leader requires different skill sets. “The traits that got you to where you are won’t necessarily take you to the next level,” says the diversity consultant Jane Hyun, who wrote a book called Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling. To become a leader requires taking personal initiative and thinking about how an organization can work differently. It also requires networking, self-promotion, and self-assertion. It’s racist to think that any given Asian individual is unlikely to be creative or risk-taking. It’s simple cultural observation to say that a group whose education has historically focused on rote memorization and “pumping the iron of math” is, on aggregate, unlikely to yield many people inclined to challenge authority or break with inherited ways of doing things.
THat all boils down to being a Western Biased slam on Eastern sensibilities. And it is easily seen to be false, by seeing that the East has not had anymore trouble finding leaders than the West does. Also by seeing that the East does not have any trouble being creative. Tech innovation is now being driven by the East, not from America or Europe. The is more of Westerners being full of themselves, and blind,
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 10:01 am
@hawkeye10,
I'm thinking you didn't read the whole article.

I'm thinking that a person raised in Asia in a typical American style might face the same problems breaking into upper management. That cultural ineptness is a big roadblock to success.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 10:08 am
@boomerang,
Definately interesting article.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 11:17 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I'm thinking you didn't read the whole article.

I'm thinking that a person raised in Asia in a typical American style might face the same problems breaking into upper management. That cultural ineptness is a big roadblock to success.
I did not read the whole thing, was going off of your quote...

If the objection is that Asians in American should take the "when in Rome" approach if they want to succeed I think that the objection is wrong. The Center of global gravity has moved over the years from Europe, to America, and is now rapidly moving to China. French was once the language of the world, now it is English, if China remains dominant long enough it will eventually be Modern Standard Chinese. Americans who can adapt to Chinese culture will have a leg up on gaining individual success, because they will be the ones who the Chinese will choose to deal with. Because of the Asian distaste for dealing with outsiders our corporations will make sure to hire Americans from Asian backgrounds who have been brought up in the old ways of the East.

Do you really think that this daughter is going to have a problem landing a very good gig when she gets out of Harvard or Yale? She will not, she will collect a premium on the job market because of how she has been raised.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 11:31 am
@hawkeye10,
First of all, they're talking about Americans in America, more specifically Americans of Asian descent in America. They're saying the Tiger Mom version of "keep your head down, work hard, don't rock the boat" doesn't give them the social skills to compete for executive positions in America. They're saying that the "bamboo ceiling" is not just about racism but equally about culture. They're saying that Asian-Americans who adapt to American culture have a leg up and that the Tiger Mom thing works against them.

I think this daughter will find a job and she just might hit the bamboo ceiling which could completely stall her career.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 11:44 am
Also, despite the early, sensationalistic marketing, the book that the actual Tiger Mother in question wrote is not a how-to -- it charts her journey away from classical Tiger-motherness. She ends up deciding that she needs to loosen up.

So her daughters are not purely products of a strict Chinese upbringing. In addition to having an American dad who thought their mom was too strict (and offered ballast in his parenting), their mom also decided that she was being too strict.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 11:47 am
@boomerang,
Well I got that. And was going to respond - this article isn't stating that this girl (or others like her) are not going to succeed (and succeeding can be very subjective any way) - but that they will have difficulty getting roles in leadership and will handicap them for these sorts of positions.

I can think of some one right away (not asian), but that has this particular mentality. She is extremely smart - smarter than those several levels above her. But she does not have the leadership or social skills needed to be a higher level executive - she is in a leadership role, but not one that hits that executive level - there is an opening above her and not that she doesn't deserve or work to the bone (this woman works more hours than anyone else I've ever encountered) and smart as can be, but I doubt she will get the role.

I believe this is what you are referring to -
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 12:02 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
They're saying that the "bamboo ceiling" is not just about racism but equally about culture. They're saying that Asian-Americans who adapt to American culture have a leg up and that the Tiger Mom thing works against them.
And I am saying that this is wrong, because of the rise of China as the sole global superpower. The Chinese will expect and will get the people they want running the American Corporate Class. Americans who have been raised by tiger moms will be the prefect fit, as they are American enough to deal with the Americans and still Chinese enough to deal with the Chinese. They will also be American citizens, which makes using them a better idea than is importing Americanized Chinese to run these corporations.

Americans if it were left up to us might have never picked tiger sons and daughters to be in these powerful positions, but increasingly what we do is no longer up to us, those who are is massive debt to others soon find that they no longer pick the music that gets danced to.
 

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