Security vs. Humanity

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Not really much of a philosophy & debate kind of topic, but it's the closest thing I could find to "ethics."

The building I work in has showers in the bathrooms. For at least as long as I've been here (about two years now, I'm afraid), a homeless man has been coming in on a fairly regular basis to take showers. He comes in early in the morning (7:00, when the doors are unlocked) and is gone before most people show up for work. I come in at 7:00 two days a week, and I have briefly met the guy, and he seems harmless. There was a brief spate of grand thefts in the university last year, but it was pulled off by people working as a team in broad daylight -- not this guy.

Recently, the guy's presence has come to the attention of the administration, and they are making a concerted effort to ban him from the building -- though compliance is difficult, because this is a campus of over 40,000 students and police resources won't be dedicated to hanging around waiting for the guy to show up for his shower. Nonetheless, there is a great deal of concern from the higher-ups that the guy might pose a threat, and they want to see him gone.

I've been of the opinion that this guy is harmless; he's been coming in for a long time without incident, he cleans up after himself, and he goes away. The administration's position, and it has some validity, is that you never know about anyone, and that any "breach of security" must be repaired.

Whattaya think? Do the benefits of cracking down on this guy outweigh the benefits of letting him clean up a couple of mornings a week?

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*Good heavens Patiodog, that IS a difficult issue
to address. He seems to be doing no one any
harm, yet from the university's point of view,
they really "almost have to take some action"
on this since it has been brought to their attention.
*On the one hand, I agree, the guy isn't hurting
anyone.
*But on the other hand, being a university having
many young people there, whose parents expect
that they have sent their kids off to a school, and
not a school which permits street people in - to use
the showers and clean up.
*I fear I must agree with the administration,
ethically, because they have a responsibility
to the parents that have kids at the school.
*I remember about 25 to 30 years ago, working
in one of the many, many state mental hospitals
in PA. The one I worked in was absolutely huge,
most of the patients there were harmless, just a
bit nuts. Aside from the criminally insane. After
so long these people became" institutionalized"
so much, that when the states' all began closing
down these institutions, putting these persons out
into group homes, which never worked, most
of them just wandered off - as they had ZERO
idea about how to live outside of an institution,
where they got their meals, their meds, their
shower, a bed - this unethical move on the part
of state governments to stop funding for these
institutions contributes greatly to the very large
population of homeless street people we have
today.
*I would prefer to see the money being spent on
prisons be spent on institutions for these mentally
ill wanderers, and I don't see why they could not
be found some kind of work to do that would offset
some of the expenses of maintaining these places.
*As for violent criminals, WHY DO THEY deserve
not only a shower, but also 3 hots meals a day & a
cot & a TV & no doubt, heating and AC, when a
"harmless man" as the one you describe - can't
even get a shower.

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Yeah, it's a bummer, to be sure. This particular building is actually just given over to research; there's no undergraduate presence here. The reasoning is the same, though.

This guy actually appears to be reasonably with it, though it's often hard to tell without really having a conversation with him.

I feel like I should let him know what's going on next time I see him -- but, putting myself in his shoes, that'd really make no difference. I know that I wouldn't do anything different until the police told me to stay away. I mean, what are they going to do to on the "first offense" which is worse than not having my showers? (And this is clearly very important to him; he's got quite an extensive toiletry kit. Come to think of it, maybe the dept. could hire him to teach some of the researchers here good hygiene; some of 'em you can still smell half an hour after they leave the room.)

I'm not at all unaware of the potential for workplace violence; a very close friend of a friend was shot and killed (along with two others, if I remember right) at work three years ago, about half a mile from where I lived. What rubs me the wrong way is the tone of the alerts that are being sent out every time someone finds the shower floor wet. They all sound as though there is some wild animal loose -- "Don't approach him or talk to him" and the like.

Thanks for the response.

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Am i wrong in assuming that security services has had no prior interest in the building? Is this not a case of singling this man out? My point not being one about your safety, rather that security services did not seem to previously have a great concern for the safety of the employees--and this sudden interest is obviously reactive, and not a part of any plan to improve everyone's work place safety.

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Nah, you'd be correct in that assumption. This place is very poorly run; every decision is reactive. Also, there is no "security services." There are a handful of police prowling the campus at any given time -- writing speeding tickets, for the most part, and that's pretty much it. (There is more of a presence in the university hospital, than there is where I am, though down there they did have someone come in with a rifle and kill his boss a year or two ago.)

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The hospital thing doesn't surprise me--i work in the industrial security industry, and hospitals are our biggest customers. Given the prevalence of drunkenness and rapes on campus, i've always been appalled at the poor quality of security services on campuses. I worked for over six years for the state universities civil service system at a state i won't name, and quit in disgust at the attitudes of other civil service employees. I make much better money, now, as well. My leaving had nothing to do with security services, but they were damned poor at every campus i've seen.

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Hey, I'm a great illustration of the quality of your average civil service employee!

Whattaya think about this particular situation? Is there any justification for continuing to turn a blind eye, or should security carry the day? My emotional reaction to both the man and to the administration's attitudes toward him aside, I'm not sure what I actually think should be done.

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I can't speak to your reaction to the individual, obviously. But i was immediately reminded of an anecdote i read of Thomas Jackson. Upon making an inquiry of one of his staff officers, about a minor matter, the officer began to say: "I fear that . . ." Jackson interrupted him to say: "Never take counsel of your fears." You should do what you think best. In your shoes, i would probably leave well enough alone, because absent any verifiable threat from the man, i would refuse to "take counsel of my fears."

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Hmmm - I wonder if common sense and compassion is being set aside in this case by the passion for litigation and the risk-management mentality? Ie - the authorities fear now that they are aware of the man that they will be sued if they do not take action and anything happens?

I am inclined to agee with the "Do not take counsel of your fears" approach and to extend compassion and simple humanity to this man, however I do also sympathise with the bureaucracy who know, I assume, that their arses are on the line should anything occur.

Sigh - what a world!

Patio - what about if you dropped him a quiet suggestion that he "lay low" for a bit - until the flurry of concern died down a little? truly - this seems such a cruel scenario.

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Really, I don't think it would make any difference. He's been escaping detection for at least two years, and laying low? Hell, what's the dude gonna do in the meantime? Really, the only way he'll get caught is in the act, and since no one so lacking in compassion comes in before 8:00, it's not likely that somebody is going to narc on him while he's here. Otherwise, no one's likely to notice him coming into and out of the building; he really is very well-kempt. (Frankly, if someone's standing by the door in the morning looking for homeless people coming and going, they'd probably be more inclined to stop me than him.)

Anyway, there's very prominent "THESE FACILITIES ARE FOR FACULTY, STAFF, AND STUDENTS ONLY" signs on all the bathroom doors now. I actually haven't seen him since it's become an issue, though I know he's been here from time to time because the floors are wet.

Really I just wanted to see where people's sympathies lay...

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I'm torn on this one too. I used to share a house with 35 people in Madison, and one was a guy who had been homeless, then went on meds and got treatment and was doing pretty well. Then the really weird stuff started happening -- it was a vegetarian co-op, and one morning there were loud shrieks of horror (I heard 'em) as people started discovering a dead deer hanging from the tree, blood everywhere. There were huddled discussions about who would hate us so much as to do that, and then Tim sauntered up and said "Check out my deer!" Everyone goggled at him, and he said he'd hit it with his car the night before and brought it home to eat. He got really confrontational with the people who thought hanging it outside the dining room of a vegetarian co-op might be a little, well, thoughtless.

Then he started trying to machete down the trees on the property. Etc. It got worse and worse, it turned out he was off his meds, everyone was quaking in their boots, and eventually we got a restraining order against him (UGLY UGLY UGLY).

Do all homeless people have mental illness? Not at all. Did Tim do any actual harm? Not really/ hard to say. But that was the first thing I thought of, unfortunately, when I read your story. He was totally fine and calm until he wasn't.

ETA: This is responding mostly to your question about where our sympathies lay. I'm loath to suggest or condone any official course of action based on my emotional reaction.

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Point well taken: you never can tell.

To me, though, that applies to just about anybody. I've already mentioned to workplace shootings in Seattle since I've been here, and in both cases it wasn't a random weirdo, but a current (the hospital shooting) or former (the multiple shooting at the shipyard) employee. There are plenty of people who work here who most of us don't know any better than the dude taking the showers.

Nonetheless, the folks in charge have to answer to other people and have to cover their own ass, as well.

I guess for me it comes back to William S. Burroughs quoting I-dunno-who in his badger story: "Man is a bad animal."

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patiodog ( that is the second time I have writ your name tonight...)

I would not do anything at all until you must. The man needs a shower. Maybe he has hopes of a job interview. Maybe he just wants to be clean. If he is homeless, and fears going to a shelter for whatever reasons, he may need this clean-up job just for his self-esteem or as his last hope of belonging to a world that showers every day.

You wrote: This place is very poorly run; every decision is reactive.
There is your answer. Wait as long as you can until the issue is forced. If the man will talk to you, tell him that you have heard scuttlebutt that he may be locked out. Ask him if you can help him find another facility.

I work sometimes in a shelter and soup-kitchen and have learned that a shower and clean-up can make a world of difference: a shave for the men, and a few toiletries for the women, plus some presentable clothes, and they are able to rub shoulders with the world again.

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A homeless man who is hanging on to a little bit of his self esteem, caring just enough about himself to want to take a shower and be on his way.

(sigh)

Why doesn't the university make one bathroom officially available to homeless people daily, for a few hours, with a security person present to cover their a$$es? They might throw in a cup of coffee and some breakfast, too. The students could help with this, as part of their education, in the broader sense.[/I]

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Angie, just hatched in the nick of time
I say - she has the best solution of all. If you can't let
the man take a shower whenever he wants to - let him
take a shower, with some of his pals, at a set time, and
under very tight security/Maybe even a security camera

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angie -- a great idea, which would never fly here. not a progressive university.

i'm sitting tight, anyhow, and i don't think it's something that will become a campus-wide issue; just something going on in my building -- and certainly nothing i've been asked personally to do anything about. i really think the worst that can happen for him is that he finally has a run-in with the police and they tell him not to come back. and given his extensive toiletry kit (full shaving gear, shampoo and conditioner, and the like -- and he clearly does laundry on a regular basis, so some money is definitely coming in) he can cough up the five bucks a month to join the campus gym and shower there.

so, i'm not too concerned about the individual; there are plenty of people out there doing a lot worse than he appears to be. principally, though, i though it was an interesting issue.

another story tangential to my life which might have some bearing: the elderly parents of one of my old teacher and friend were beaten -- he to death, she to permanent derangement and frailty, both with his wheelchair -- by a man who had been let in to sleep on their downstairs neighbor's couch. obviously, the neighbor hadn't expected this to happen, and was trying to do a good turn. in fairness to the powers-that-be where i work, if something like that happened here they would be in a world of trouble.

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............ which is why any arrangement such as the one I suggested would absolutely need to be secure.

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Oh that is absolutely HORRIBLE! How could such a thing
happen. They let a total stranger into their apartment,
or home - and then he murdered your friend's parents?
That is too disgusting to even think about. Where they all
living within the same house? How did he get access to
your friend's parents? That is a very good illustration of the
necessity of states & feds getting together and get some
funding, housing, & if need be- containment for some of
these people. It is clear that there is a REAL potential
for danger here. How does the average man or woman
tell who is just a neurotic alcoholic living under a bridge from
the psychotic man with murder in his eyes. This is a real risk
factor and I don't understand why it is not being addressed,
other than the fact that with the current lack of leadership,
NOTHING is being addressed, nor will it be until this a**wipe
is removed from his position. We need a "sane" person leading
our govt. Not a bunch of money hoarding slime bags like
dubya & friends.

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Hmmm.. Well, I can tell you what the guys that used to work upstairs from me did in a similar circumstance...

10 years or so ago when I was stationed at a military base in Maine we had a local "indigent" that used to sneak into the installation gymnasium to use the facilities (about once a week..). He went in and out at 7 am as well but mostly because there were a lot of people around so he could slip in through the crowd. Eventualy he did get caught and he got tossed out and was caught trying to get back in several times.

Anyway, the guys upstairs all used the gym and they knew about him so they started signing him in as their guest. They setup a schedule with him and every few days he'd be waiting at the front gate, they'd pull up, he'd jump in their car and they'd take him through the gate and to the gym where he'd shower and shave and when he was done they'd drive him back out and drop him off where they had picked him up. Each of the guys probbaly spent an hour a month with him so no one was really burdened.. They got razzed about it a little but never got in any trouble and everyone was happy as long as he was supervised while on the base.

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Fishin', that sounds cool.

Angie, I like your idea, too.

babs, it's just not practical to "contain" all of the people who might become violent in the future, especially if you factor in medications. There are lots of people who function perfectly wonderfully, so wonderfully that they figure that maybe they don't need those meds that slow 'em down and have all kinds of unpleasant side effects after all, and they stop. And then... (This happened with a cousin of mine, too.)

There's got to be a better solution than what's in place, though, I agree. Such an awful story, pd.

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Security vs. Humanity

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