Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 07:52 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Quote:
Now one more thing real quick Smile You still explaing that you think God should be some dude walking around making things go poof and magical make thing things appear and disapear and magical stuff.


You are the one who is making that claim. I am trying to make sense of what you want to imagine to be real. The fact that you slap the label god onto this so called mass that was the big bang, is telling that you are the one who is trying to insert the magic into the whole mess, not me. I have absolutely no problem leaving the concept god out of the whole thing, because it does absolutely nothing to answer the question. You want to think that it does but it doesn't do anything except make the whole thing more convoluted and vague.

Quote:
So does that it make you feel good that you own evrething to Eric joe or well Krumple what name did you give it let me ask?


I am not sure why you always come back to this whole thing about feeling good. I am not concerned about what reality makes me feel like. In some cases I might not like it but I will accept it if it is true. However I will not accept something just because it makes me feel good without knowing if it is actually true or not. If you want to operate that way, that is fine but it doesn't work for me. I want to know if it is actually true, but so far you have not provided a single thing that shows that it is. You just keep asserting that it is but that is all, which is to say, nothing. You are easily convinced without needing to know anything else, but I am not so easily bought.
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 08:45 am
@Krumple,
Aha there we go. Yes religios. So yes we can both agree that our concept of that religion is causing us alot of misguidence. I mean realy a God thats says go kill each other and blame it on me. Hehe yes that is silly I aggre. Well for your #2 answer well I suppose if we studied another planets race without comparing it to our own. We can say hey look the make houses and have plumbing, Yays and then they go and kill at least 200.000 members of its society yearly. Hehe does this species have any concept of unity? Hmm I wonder what would be able to Unite 2 billion people...... Any suggestions? # 3 Its irrelavant to think of new places to inhabit? Ok so what youre telling me is that the earth will be habital for ever and that population will quit growing right? Beacuse you did say it was irrelevant! Yay 3 cheers for looking at the small picture Smile Well guess spending a trillion dollars a year in a way to bring down population like wars makes alot more sense Smile Smile Smile And finaly #4 If joe the nut was able to get a nuke outside our earth and blow it. Well ok 2 months later tell me...... What would in your best guess What would society and technological advances be like with no computers lights transportation banking system? So we can make a nuke yays? Did we advance? Or did we fail to apply wisdom to knowledge and ended up regressing because of it? Ohh and im still waitng for the name you gave to the mass of wich evreything in this Universe came from..... Elizabeth got a nice ring to it Smile But Is your baby so give it a nice name Smile
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 09:38 am
@Krumple,
Krump wrote:
Quote:
The more I study the functions and order of the Universe, earth and life therein, the more I believe it illogical to cast aside the possibility of conscious design.

That is how you interpret it. I don't. I have studied human anatomy pretty extensively. If some "intelligent" being were behind the creation of the human body then in my opinion that "designer" was a horrible craftsman. The human body is riddled with very simple flaws that can out right terminate it's own life because of the poor design. It doesn't stop there, I can see other aspects of our known universe to have wildly destructive consequences for what seems to be no purpose. So from my perspective if the universe has some "intelligent" design behind it, than in my opinion that intelligence is not very intelligent.

I agree the human body is far from perfection, and I am fine with that, I know why, though explaining it would be off conversation and only cause tangent arguementations. Intelligence is relative, I would assume that a given creator of the universe was at least a little smarter than I, I suck at single fold origami.

Krump wrote:
The further we go into quantum physics the more we come to the conclusion that yes "virtual particles" pop into existence and then immediately destroy themselves and what remains is what we consider to be the known matter. You know how this idea was discovered. Trying to explain why mayonnaise was not runny like it should be. Of course you have to have a firm understanding of quantum physics and electrodynamics has shown time and time again that reality is more bizarre than we thought.

But I am probably just wasting my time because I get the impression that you want a solution that is really no solution at all. You want a god to be real so you stop at that and don't question or go any further. But what you have tried to supply as proof, to me is absolutely lacking let alone proof.

I have supplied no proof nor have I tried, however interpretable evidence remains available. Unfortunately for us both such proof for either arguement is unobtainable which makes our theories mere interpretations of the events presented to us.

Krumple, you attribute much to someones point of view that you do not understand, It is an old school debate trick, to belittle and derise thoughts that you do not agree with, trying to arise emotion from your counterpart. I apologise if I am wrong. Your arguementative style leaves hints that you were raised and perhaps educated as a theist, turned atheist. It is more of an observation than a derogatory comment.

Quote:
You can't "do" anything outside of time.

Just for clarification, is this a fact or an interpretation?

Question.

On a theoretical level, would it be fair to say that if nothing occurs outside of time, time could not have begun, therefore infinite?

0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 09:39 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
peter jeffrey cobb wrote:
Aha there we go. Yes religios.


Yeah and you know what is even more funny. Is that you refuse to acknowledge the core of the problem. Religions wouldn't exist without the concept of god in the first place. So the core of the problem ie. "god" is what is wrong. Uproot that base and religion wouldn't even exist. So you would solve the problem of religion by realizing that the concept of god itself is a just made up human idea.

peter jeffrey cobb wrote:

Hmm I wonder what would be able to Unite 2 billion people...... Any suggestions?


Well I know it wouldn't be religion or the concept of god. That part is certain because most wars are religiously motivated at their core to begin with. So the solution isn't more god or more religion.

peter jeffrey cobb wrote:

Ok so what youre telling me is that the earth will be habital for ever and that population will quit growing right?


Nope the earth won't be habitable for ever. Never said that it would be. The population will more than likely grow endlessly because humans don't like to place caps on their breeding practices. Another thing that religion attempts to do but it goes about it all wrong. But what does this have to do with anything we are discussing? Even if we were to throw billions of dollars at trying to develop technology to leave the planet and find another one that would support human life it doesn't mean that it would work or that we should even do so. So what is your point?

peter jeffrey cobb wrote:

If joe the nut was able to get a nuke outside our earth and blow it. Well ok 2 months later tell me...... What would in your best guess What would society and technological advances be like with no computers lights transportation banking system?


I think if anything like that were to happen, "joe the nut" would be a religious nutcase. Probably motivated by some religious propaganda like always to "cleanse" the people of their "wickedness". But regardless your question is meaningless because you are implying that people should forgo technological advances for some type of primitive unity? Really? If I am not mistaken your so called primitive life style was actually far worse than what we currently have. So yeah I would much rather have technology than some primitive ignorance. Is technology delicate, sure, but I never said it wasn't.

peter jeffrey cobb wrote:

Ohh and im still waitng for the name you gave to the mass of wich evreything in this Universe came from....


You are the only one who needs to call it something. I have no problem leaving it as it is. You are the one wanting to call it god, but we don't even know if the big bang was the only big bang. We know very little to nothing about it. Yet you want to call it god, but where you get your reasoning for this is completely beyond anything that is rational or reasonable. You can just make things up because they make you feel good.

I personally don't adopt the singular big bang theory anyways. I have no problem seeing it as a multiple event. But that doesn't support your concept or idea either so I doubt you would acknowledge that as being a possibility. The reality is more than likely that gods do not exist. If there is one that does then it should know what I require to acknowledge it's existence. If that is not good enough for it then it is not good enough for me. If I am the one that requires bending on that, then what good is it? If it can't do this simple thing than it is not even worthy of being acknowledge. What ever happens because of that, is considered my own ignorance. If I get punished for being ignorant than if there is such a being who would punish me for my ignorance, then by all means that being is not even worthy of being called a god, let a lone being worshiped for behaving that way. So long story shortened, I am still waiting.
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 10:47 am
@Krumple,
Ok so youre right. The religios belifs we have now like "This guy was a proffit" There fore hes the only proffit, and ill kill you or die to pove it. Lol yes thats a bit misguided in my opinion. So having a an agrement between the scientific and religios comunity might be hmm whats the word im looking for "Benign" Ohh look at the entire defenition of the word please Smile And far as name. Well its usaly a custom to name things isnt it? Maria is catchy too Smile
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 02:49 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Be careful about naming things as psychology has a name for this! Even so I do not agree with all of what the psychologist community has to say! But I do find neuroscience and neurophilosophy to be interesting.
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 07:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
Hehe As You do know I have a disease. Its called skitsophrania. I probaly mispelled it. Its like having more than one mind. Like if some paths in the brain got crossed or something. It has its advantages and disavantages. Evreyone of my topics deal with it. So if you are intersted in it. Or if you are a stundent or researcher, a patient, or just someone interested in the subject. Read the rest of my topics. It deals with the neuroscience of my disease as well as its neurophilosophy. Smile Smile Smile
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:41 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
I will fallow your post and see what I can learn from you! One thing that I have learned so far is that you seem to handle your self well, I can only guess that people with schizophrenia very from person to person just like the rest of us.

Be glad that you can see how you are different and try to coup with it because I do believe that we all have mental differences that hold us all back but not all of are aware of these!
Check this out, I have a friend of mine that is very hard to deal with because he tells me that my view points are not important only facts are important. http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson6.php
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 12:50 am
@reasoning logic,
Hehe if could only see my side of the screen. These words would be the only thing that would appear normal to you. Smile I look like the stereo typical guy thats holding up a sign that says "God is here. Right beside you. So behave!" Lol You know the scruffy bum that no one wants in their side of the neighbor hood. Yup this darken room with this computer screen is my cell. I cant no loger be inside cars unless its a extreme emergency. My mind races and argues about possible scenarios untill I go into a state of panick. My thoughs jumps from one to the next so getting any single task done becomes almost impossible. If something falls on the floor my mind argues about weather or not to pick it up. I forget dates, numbers, appts, well realy anything. At this point in my life Im kind of scared just to walk to the store. I mean how long before someone says they want that bum out of their neighborhood? Lol my future in society does not look very bright. Ill try again to read that link again. Its hard for me to read anything too long. If you can send visual links ok. And I want to Thank You for showing intrest Smile
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 07:26 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Peter Is there a video that you think gives the best example of what a schizophrenia's life is like and maybe one that shows the cause of schizophrenia?

Thank you for any help and I will also share any info with you, "that may help you, "that I might know of!
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 07:59 pm
@reasoning logic,
Well someone posted some sites that give pretty good explanation of our understanding of the disease. I still havent learned how to paste something so bear with me Smile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia Also I cant remember were but the real life story of Jonh Nash. By BBC is real good too. It shows the strugles. And advances for the treatment of the disease. Well I read the about that disease you posted. Seems like its kind of like having a real big ego. Big enough to blind you from the current opinios of society around you. Did I understand the defenition of that disease correctly? Its hard for me to learn from texts. I get to a few sentences then my mind discusses it untill it comes up to a agreadable dessision. In school either I got A's or I got F's . Either I though myself how to do it or I dint. Does that make sense?
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 08:00 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
hehe cant believe I finaly learned the pasty thing Smile Smile Smile
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 08:12 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
You seem to see things the same way as I do!
Could I have schizophrenia also as I have the same problems also that you mentioned?
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 01:23 am
@reasoning logic,
Well it took me 36 years before I could accept it. Its not easy adminting that you have a disease such as this. Theres way too much stigma about it and its not well understod in my point of view. Not to count the past history of how those aflicted with it were treated. Well heck how much of your tax dollar do you want to spend to help the nut down the street? Isnt alot easier to just try to cover the problem up? The tax payer bill for this disease and others in mental health are in the billions. Its a serios economical and social problem. Money should be spent in more research in personal opinion. But convicing the ones that make the budget, Well thats hard to selll. Smile
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 09:03 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
You do seem to make good sense of what you speak of! off subject but do you have a interest in bio-mimicking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZp6smeSQA
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 04:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
Well If we learn how to make the substances that DNA makes. Well thats the future isnt?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 07:04 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
The broader the definition of a god gets, the closer it gets to atheism.
I find that interesting.
I'm tempted to accuse those who believe in a such gods as being closet atheists, but that's probably just my perception bias.

peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 01:37 pm
@Eorl,
I Believe my defenition of God Is pretty cut and dry. By it theres proff. a clear defenition of what God is. By my defenition it becomes pretty hard to become a athiest lol. Well unless you believe there never was a Big Bang or if youre into mystical magical stuff Smile
0 Replies
 
Lovee-4ever
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2011 07:59 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
God is our creator. Don't say He is everything but that He is these 5 things: Faith, Hope, Love, Mercy, and Truth. But He is only these things for those people who have enough strength to accept it. See, some people don't have enough 'evidence', but since God is Faith, He doesn't need to show any evidence. Since God is Hope, that should be enough for us. Since God is Love, we should open ourselves up to Him in order to feel Love. Since He is Mercy, we should consider ourselves lucky instead of asking for more. Since He is Truth, we should believe.
Eorl
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2011 02:22 am
@Lovee-4ever,
Trying to take on that argument would like trying to impregnate a bee.
0 Replies
 
 

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