Should a movie be punished by an R rating simply because of an X number of F-bombs?

You are completely missing the point Finn. The way words are used is far more damaging than the vocabulary.

So that's you point. It hasn't been mine, but then I didn't realize we were all forced to respond to yours. If that's your only point then we need not continue...I agree with this statement. It seems though that another of your points has been that there is no harm in a five year old using profanity, and with that I don't agree.

First of all, five year olds all know the word '****' (I don't know if you have or have ever had a five year old). Five year olds have older siblings and cousins and they live with adults who are real human beings. And they teach each other. You put a group of 25 of them in kindergarten and all of them are going to be exposed to the word and most of them will use it.

If you actually read anything I've written on this thread, you would know that I have children. I have three, and they were all 5 once...in fact one of them was probably 5 when we first watched Monster Squad.

I have little doubt that most 5 year olds have heard the word "****," and most of them know what it means. In and of itself this means nothing in terms of what we are discussing. One of my concerns with 5 year olds hearing a 5 year old gratuitously using "chickenshit" in a movie made for children is not that their virgin ears will be exposed to the word for the first time, but that it might seem cute or acceptable to them.

The real question is about whether grownups can cope with reality. There are two ways to deal with these so-called "bad" words.

Who has that question other than perhaps you?

We can teach kids that there are "bad" words that should never be used. Clearly this is a lie. Kids will understand that you are teaching them hypocrisy. And of course, when you prohibit something, even for young kids, you make it desirable (anyone who has ever had a 5 year old knows how powerful this facet of human nature is at that age).

I'm amused by how constrained you seem to feel you are. You're relying on a false choice to support your argument.

We can also teach our kids that there are bad words which they should never use. This does not involve a lie. Children are perfectly capable of understanding that there is a clear distinction between how children may behave and how adults may behave, without sitting in the corners of their rooms fuming over the hypocritical nature of life and their lying parents.

We can also avoid using profanity around our children and so provide a good example and minimize any sense of inequity they may experience.

Yes, they will hear other people use the words, but so what? They hear people insult one another and see people hurt one another all of the time. You seem to be claiming that preventing such behavior by our children should be the focus of parents. I doubt you believe this is a futile effort because your kids see other people doing what you don't want them to.

I don't know whether or not you drink or smoke, but if you do, are you as sanguine about letting your kids drink or smoke? If not, then apparently you don't have a problem with the inherent hypocrisy of preventing them from doing something you practice.

Why not just deal with reality and focus on what is important. Prohibiting the language is useless, they will have to learn (just as we did) that sometimes swears are acceptable (i.e. with friends) and sometimes they are not (i.e. with grandma). Why shouldn't we, as adults, teach kids this?

Because in my reality and the reality of millions of other parents, it is important that children don't use profanity. I assure you that we can manage to hold many other values important as well and don't have to sacrifice thou shall not kill in order to keep little kids from cursing.

Prohibition is hardly useless since my kids didn't swear in front of adults, just as I didn't swear in front of adults when I was a kid. I know I didn't run ouside and fling curses around my friends just because I could and I doubt my kids did either. Prohibition of cursing in public assists in teaching children self-control which is something they had better learn to use when they are adults.

In my family we have the term "Grandma words" which my kids understand means don't use any words that grandma might be offended by. Of course they understand that in social situations thy need to act "maturely". With my three kids, this has never been a problem.

You're pretty lucky if you've never had a problem with your kids acting immaturely.

Kids can be quite cruel without using any swears. I teach my kids not to be cruel, and when they are I react strongly

Good for you. I taught my kids the same thing and still taught them not to curse.

Of course, you can use swears in a way that hurts no one. When this happens, I might mention is or I might not, but really I don't give a ****.

Within reason, you're free to raise your children as you see fit, as was I. You, however, seem to have more of a problem with my critique of Monster Squad and not wanting kids to curse then I do with your letting your kids curse.

Quote:

A five year old may know the word, but he doesn't need to be taught that it's acceptable. If I heard one of my kid's friends using that language, I wouldn't want my kid hanging out with that loser

This reminds me of the time Mo came home from school and used the word "nigger". I went bat-**** crazy. That is most certainly a word he never heard at home. He had no idea what the word meant, only that it was an insult. I had a thread here about it (but I can't find it now) where I asked how someone should talk to their kid about this word. I got some extraordinary advice.

I put "faggot" in that same category -- words we simply never ever use because their sole intent is to hurt and insult.

We don't cuss at home and Mo isn't allowed to cuss but cuss words don't make my head explode like some words do.

Would I let him see a movie that used the word "nigger" or "faggot"?

It depends entirely on the context.

This Film Is Not Yet Rated
2006NR90 minutes
Kirby Dick's provocative documentary investigates the secretive and inconsistent process by which the Motion Picture Association of America rates films, revealing the organization's underhanded efforts to control culture. Dick questions whether certain studios get preferential treatment and exposes the discrepancies in how the MPAA views sex and violence. Interviewees include John Waters, Darren Aronofsky, Maria Bello, Atom Egoyan and more.

In what context might Mo use the word "****" that wouldn't concern or upset you?

A struggling artist working as waitress kidnaps one of her customers to bring home and meet her parents at Christmas.

Hoepfully nobody has the keys to these handcuffs, 11 January 2009
1 out of 10 stars
Author: tstyles1 from United States

This is garbage. First off, it's not for kid's under thirteen unless you want to have to feel uncomfortable watching it and wondering what is going through their mind. Secondly, Mario Lopez is a reject. Why do you think he was on Dancing with the Stars. Keep it away from the kids. Watch "It's a Wonderful Life" instead. That is a time when creative people knew how to make entertaining movies for families.

You didn't ask me, but since I have a kid of a similar age:

Finn wrote:

In what context might Mo use the word "****" that wouldn't concern or upset you?

Pretty much anything that wasn't intended to cause hurt.

For example, "And then her little sister was making up a rhyme and accidentally said '****,' but she didn't even know what it meant, and everyone started laughing and she was like 'what? what???'."

It wouldn't bother me, no (except that it'd be extremely out of character and so I'd worry a bit about that -- but in and of itself, no).

My standard spiel on these things is something like, "Papa and I really don't care about what you say... it's not a big deal to us as long as you're not using those words to purposely hurt anyone. But these words can really bother some people, so keep that in mind before you use them." With more detail according to what word it is.

Well, no, I wouldn't. (I wonder who knows me better, me or you. Hmmmmmm....)

I would start trying to figure out the out of character part (was she hanging out with new friends? did something happen at the playground?)

In what context might Mo use the word "****" that wouldn't concern or upset you?

The rating, which prevents anyone under 17 from watching the film unless accompanied by a parent or adult guardian, will not block the commercial screening of the film in theaters scheduled for later this month.

However, the designation will prevent the film from being shown in high school classes as an educational tool, to the disappointment of its creators and backers.

Certification:
USA:R (original rating) | USA:Unrated (rating surrendered) | Canada:18A (Ontario)