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I KNOW God does not exist

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:22 pm
@BillRM,
This is not the rape thread. You are not going to use me in any way to hijack this thread.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:01 pm
@Arella Mae,

Quote:
My only point is for either of us to say we ABSOLUTELY KNOW there is or there isn't a God would be dishonest.


A fairly worthless point no one can claim they know absolutely that the tooth fairy does not exist.

By normal used of logic the chance of the bible god existing is equal to the tooth fairy existing.

So close to zero as to say that such a god being does no exist is hardly a misstatement in the normal everyday meaning of such statements.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:03 pm
@BillRM,
Now, isn't that ironic and a bit funny? It was non- believers that got me to understand I can't prove God exists anymore than they can prove he doesn't. So now, I understand it and what, y'all changed your minds about it? I mean that statement very generally and it does not apply to everyone and it is not aimed at any person in particular.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:16 pm
@Arella Mae,
Yes, certainly do not lump the rest of us in with a clown like that. One of the problems that many agnostics and atheists have is with an anthropomorphic deity--that man was created in the image of the deity. For example, why would an onmipotent being need arms, legs, fingers, toes, etc.? For some people, the entire scriptural/liturgical/doctrinal song and dance is offensive, but they accept the concept of a deity as a prime mover. For many of these, god is a progenerative force, a cosmos builder, who either sits back and watches, not inferferring further, or simply moves on. For some, such as myself, there is no logical need for a deity--that's why you'll read people invoking what is usually referred to as Occam's Razor (although William of Occam did not originate the idea). Occam's Razor states that entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem--causes are not to be multiplied beyond necessity. In this case, one would question the necessity of an eternal god, because the cosmos itself could be eternal. Further complicating the issue is the understanding that space and time did not exist until the so-called "Big Bang" took place, so that in such a context, the concept of eternity is meaningless.

People hold their beliefs (or reject the beliefs proposed to them) for a wide variety of reasons, and i'm glad to see that you have the good sense not to put everyone in a single box. When atheists do this, it's often because of an "us and them" attitude which has been imposed on them by what they see as a hostile, theistic society. They see all theists as virtually identical because the point of their contact is the condemnation which they get if they bring up their lack of belief.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:26 pm
@Setanta,
I have definitely learned we cannot lump everyone together. I've learned quite a lot over these past few years. I really do understand what you are saying in your post and though I don't hold the same thoughts, I won't treat you differently than I should treat anyone. I have learned if someone believes in God they do and if they don't they don't. I can't convince anyone either way. Bet you never thought you'd hear me say that, huh?

BTW, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for years ago when I was less than kind to you. I was wrong.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:35 pm
@Arella Mae,
So the fact that the likelihood of the Christian three in one god existing by logic and commonsense is on the same footing as the tooth fairy please you as long as no one can state that he does not exist along with the tooth fairy 100 percents?

That all we can say is the odds are 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to one that he does not exist along with other similar gods or goddresses?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 04:34 am
@Arella Mae,
Don't sweat the small stuff, Boss . . .
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 12:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't limit it to God, so what's your point.

If you know something that's beyond human understanding then please introduce it to me. If you can't I can only assume it does not exist.
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 01:05 pm
@Arella Mae,
I don't care what label is tacked onto it, call it what you will, but how do you define "belief" in a God NO DOUBTS. Belief in a God WITH DOUBTS. Non Belief in a God WITH DOUBTS and Non Belief in a God NO DOUBTS.

We have here 4 separate states but I would suggest that the 2nd is actually the same as the 3rd.
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 01:07 pm
@Arella Mae,
Why would it be dishonest, don't you ever use the statement "I Know" for other things, what's so different about God?
bob600
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 01:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Existence is relative to human beings, until we understand something fully "it" cannot exist in our reality, all that can exist is a misconception of it, which I would suggest is the totality of human existence as far as the eye can see. "because they are not fully understood is not proof that they do not exist" but it is proof that what we think "they" might be is wrong and because of that the real reality still does not exist TO US.
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 01:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
"I believe in a God I cannot, as a living human, every fully understand" then the God you believe in is a lie, as your God does not exist. If there was a God never to be understood then what do you understand of it that's so important to be addressed as God
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 07:54 pm
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

Why would it be dishonest, don't you ever use the statement "I Know" for other things, what's so different about God?
I use the statement "I know" when I truly do know. I think I've explained it already.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 08:17 pm
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

Tell that to all the great thinkers scientists and inventors, its what they did not understand drove them to find out more. The greatest 2 words are "that's strange"


The greatest small word is "if"
Telamon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 11:37 pm
@bob600,
Well looks like we have a new fellow on the block trying to mix the community up a bit (not that im a veteran or anything here). Anyways, moveing on…Starting at the original post. Firstly, holy crap! So many things taken in the most radical of circumstances, you my friend, have a nack for keeping those blinders up (and a sure-fire way of starting a pissing contest).
guess ill start here~
To “Know” something is not that same as being correct…
Hundreds of years ago everyone KNEW the earth was flat…
Everyone KNEW that the earth was the center of the unerverse…
The list goes on…
bob600 wrote:

…would be so beyond my understanding that his presence would be meaningless to me…
~correct! (key words: “to me”)
bob600 wrote:

So every so called man made God I have ever been presented with is understandable to me and in that alone means he cannot be real
~the ignorance in this statement leaves be baffled. I wish I had a response for it but that’s the best I could come up with.

TBH the only “religion”(used lightly) that is acceptable, in my mind, and to be the most truthful, is to be Agnostic. For they clame to know nothing, only speculate the possiblities.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:18 am
@Telamon,
Quote:
TBH the only “religion”(used lightly) that is acceptable, in my mind, and to be the most truthful, is to be Agnostic. For they clame to know nothing, only speculate the possiblities.


So you would have a problem with declaring that the tooth fairy does not exist?

As the chance of the tooth fairy and the three in one god existing is on the same level.
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 03:08 pm
@Telamon,
Your to kind in your analysis, I am simply a seeker of the truth.

Of course to KNOW something is not the same as being correct, I would never say that, in fact I would say that in most cases to KNOW something means you are wrong in your understanding of what you KNOW. However, to be wrong does not mean that you don't KNOW.

Consider "to me" shorthand for:- It would still be beyond the understanding to another human being or the most intelligent human being ever, or even the collective humans since time began.

Sorry to be baffling, but and it may be a cliché but everyone has a different concept of God and as they are concepts that they understand to a greater degree and a real God is a concept no human could ever understand even the smallest percentage of then none of man's concepts of God are correct so none of man's Gods exist. Perhaps God's God exists as he at least would understand him better.
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 03:11 pm
@Intrepid,
Agreed, but that usually follows "that's strange" what "if" we tried.........
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 03:14 pm
@Arella Mae,
You have explained already, to me, but have you fully explained to yourself. I can only assume from your answer that as you "truly don't know" of Gods existence that is Agnosticism as there are doubts and a desire to be proven right or wrong.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 03:18 pm
@bob600,
If I can explain it to you then OBVIOUSLY I understand it and don't need to explain it to myself. I am not an agnostic. I am a Christian. I would think I know what I am, don't you? I wouldn't tell you that you are a Christian if you told me you were an atheist.
 

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