18
   

I KNOW God does not exist

 
 
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:39 pm
@Arella Mae,
I don't have to prove all the things I know, I know Hitler is dead, I know cold is not as warm as hot, I know that non existence exists, I know I exist. In fact the only things I might need to prove are things I believe, and the only person I need to prove them to is me.
0 Replies
 
bob600
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:42 pm
@spidergal,
Please, even God can't prove something does not exist, all that can be done with things that don't exist is to KNOW they don't exist. If they do, then someone will prove they do and one can be suitably surprised and foolish looking.
bob600
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:55 pm
@fresco,
I must agree "Arguments about "proof" and "evidence" are futile" so all that's left is to KNOW or to not be sure, and move on.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 04:09 pm
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

That's a strange take on what I am saying. I was talking about God in particular not "something" in general, and I said if I understand the concept of a given God then that God cannot exist as any God would be beyond human understanding. How does that equate to "if you don't understand something, it cannot exist,"


I've read your words to say

I know God doesn't exist because he/she/it is beyond human understanding and anything beyond human understanding can't exist.

I don't know why you would limit it to God.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 04:11 pm
@bob600,
Well if you're knowing God doesn't exist give you peace or satisfaction, who are we to try an question your statement.

Have to wonder though why you felt the need to post it.
bob600
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 04:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
OK if we are to talk about anything, please explain how ANYTHING can exist in reality TO US if its forever beyond our understanding. We may be aware of something but not the totality of that something so therefore to us that totality can never exist. Now we could do what we do with God and say I exist (being aware of something) so there must be a "God" the hidden totality. However, all that can ever be is a poor uninformed concept, it can never be the reality.
bob600
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 04:22 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I thought that's what a forum was for, sorry
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 07:36 pm
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

Of course theists also know, to have doubts would make them agnostics, so to be a theist means you must KNOW. I don't have time for your suggested reading, busy, busy, busy. I just know what I know. Let me put it this way if I say I KNOW the moon is not made of green cheese would you tell me I was wrong, or even that there was a slight possibility that it was? If a friend comes in and says "its raining outside" when you thought the sun was shining you might say "I don't believe its raining" because your prepared to be wrong if you venture out. I don't believe in God is the same "just in case" statement.


Where do you get your definition of theist? To be a theist doesn't mean ONE MUST KNOW there is a god. It is to have a BELIEF there is a god.

Merriam-Webster's:

Definition of THEISM

: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

You cannot prove there is God anymore than I can prove there is not God. It's not about proof anyway. It's about faith.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 07:37 pm
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

Please, even God can't prove something does not exist, all that can be done with things that don't exist is to KNOW they don't exist. If they do, then someone will prove they do and one can be suitably surprised and foolish looking.
My only point is for either of us to say we ABSOLUTELY KNOW there is or there isn't a God would be dishonest.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 08:11 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Laughing Wake up !
Nobody has respect for "irrational" beliefs! They have respect for individual persons who might have those beliefs provided such persons do not act in a socially dysfunctional group which believes that it has the "authority" to interfere the lives of non-believers. Unfortunately, a bi-product of theistic belief tends to be the formation and self perpetuation of. such groups.


You mean groups like the crips and bloods ?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:26 am
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

OK if we are to talk about anything, please explain how ANYTHING can exist in reality TO US if its forever beyond our understanding. We may be aware of something but not the totality of that something so therefore to us that totality can never exist. Now we could do what we do with God and say I exist (being aware of something) so there must be a "God" the hidden totality. However, all that can ever be is a poor uninformed concept, it can never be the reality.


I'm sorry, but I just don't follow what appears to be your basic premise:

Unless we fully understand something, it cannot exist.

There are many things I don't fully understand and which I doubt anyone fully understands, but which I know exist. More importantly, because they are not fully understood is not proof that they do not exist.

If you are aware of something, it exists.

I don't know that anyone is aware of God, and if anyone knows God exists they've yet to be able to prove it to my staisfaction or the satisfaction of millions of other like me.

I believe in a God I cannot, as a living human, every fully understand.

Besides, your original post did not relate to proof of God's existence, but proof that he does not exist. In that context how is it material how some come to believe that God, or anything for that matter, exists?



Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:27 am
@bob600,
bob600 wrote:

I thought that's what a forum was for, sorry


For what?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:54 am
@Arella Mae,
Tick any of the following you think are socially dysfunctional:

1. Suicide bombings
2. Mutilation of the sexual organs of children.
3. Blessing of soldiers before they go off to slaughter each other.
4. Interference in sexual practices to the detriment of the mental or physical health of the participants.
5. Claiming ancient territories granted by "divine authority".

Now tick any any of the above you do not associate with "believers".

Report any double ticks .
fresco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 01:19 am
@bob600,
What is meant by "know" is related to our desires to "predict and control".
As an atheist I am rejecting. "God the controller" and "the prediction of "eternal life". But I am doing more, I am claiming that the holding of such beliefs tends to be macro-socially pernicious according to the tangible evidence we DO have. In that sense of "prediction", I CAN claim to "know".
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:02 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Tick any of the following you think are socially dysfunctional:

1. Suicide bombings
2. Mutilation of the sexual organs of children.
3. Blessing of soldiers before they go off to slaughter each other.
4. Interference in sexual practices to the detriment of the mental or physical health of the participants.
5. Claiming ancient territories granted by "divine authority".
Now tick any any of the above you do not associate with "believers".

Report any double ticks .

I'm not going to get into a big debate about all of this, but, essentially, what you are saying is if I don't agree with you 100% then I am socially dysfunctional.

People in life will follow their moral conscience, wherever it may come from and they have the right to do it as long as it is not putting another person in imminent danger.

1. - Suicide Bombings - No, never once even had a thought of doing that.

2. - Mutilation of sexual organs of children. - Never even thought about doing that.

3. Blessing of soldiers...........each other - I can't bless a soldier in that regard. God does those kinds of blessings. What I can do is say I pray you stay safe. I don't get into the politics of war at all.

4. I have never interferred with anyone's sexual practices.....I don't watch other people have sex so how the heck could I interfere?

Now, do you see the problem with saying merely because someone believes in a god that they are socially dysfunctional? I could turn around and say because you don't believe in a god you are socially dysfunctional and I'd be just as wrong as you are.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs. Everyone acts according to their conscience. It's the same for everyone. You don't have to like what I believe and I don't have to like what you believe but we can all get along just fine.

fresco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:37 pm
@Arella Mae,
Sorry, but if you think you are being classified by me as being "socially dysfunctional" you have not understood my posts.

However, you might like to give serious thought to Harris's accusation directed at all believers in "an afterlife" as giving succour to those dangerous fanatics anxious to take us prematurely in that direction.

In the kingdom of irrationality, the most irrational aspires to be king !
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:40 pm
@Arella Mae,
Come on AM you would made Hawkeye and his wife BDSM games illegal in a heart beat if you could for example.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 02:07 pm
@wayne,
fresco wrote:

Laughing Wake up !
Nobody has respect for "irrational" beliefs! They have respect for individual persons who might have those beliefs provided such persons do not act in a socially dysfunctional group which believes that it has the "authority" to interfere the lives of non-believers. Unfortunately, a bi-product of theistic belief tends to be the formation and self perpetuation of. such groups.
If I misunderstood this post I apologize. You are not saying, in essence, that believers are socially dysfunctional? Since you say nobody has respect for "irrational" beliefs....................If I am incorrect, please, do forgive me.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 02:09 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Come on AM you would made Hawkeye and his wife BDSM games illegal in a heart beat if you could for example.
I have never stated such a thing. If two adults wish to engage in this behave CONSENSUALLY they have a right to do it. I don't find it healthy in any regard but I never said I'd make it illegal. What I said should STAY illegal is having sex with children.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:16 pm
@Arella Mae,
Implying that Hawkeye support that?

 

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