What if the laws of physics were different?

The problem with concepts of magic is that they are almost always a "free lunch." People obtain the results of an energetic reaction without actually expending any energy. There ain't no free lunch, and you ain't gonna move mountains without expending a mountain's worth of energy.

Nature is magical enough... The existence of magic is side by side with science... Science cannot begin to explain everything, so magic as religion or spirituality remains... But it is for the weak minded, and for those who would rule over them that spirituality has any credence... When one makes a sacrifice to God to get God to do as one pleases, one reduces God to a taker of bribes, an idiot, and a sillouette of what God would be if God were God...

People do not make themselves large with God, but make God small to fit their conception of him, rather like a cruel father... I do not want to destroy God, nor magic; because these quasi conceptions of reality tell us something essential about ourselves that we should never lose track of... Consider all the morality lessons wrapped up in the thing, of what becomes of mankind when handed absolute power or wealth...

Now, magical behavior is a symptom of neurosis, and was once a fact of every life, so we can all see before us the slow progress of science against insanity as it is still being worked out... When, for example, you go to a casino and see people blessing their slot machines with a cross before losing their money when it is a fact, well known, that the people in the control room control the payouts, and even what sections of the room is paying out... The sign, and the magic has nothing to do with their ruin except that it makes the ruin all the more possible...

If in our minds, the prayers of the saved saved them, then we pray... If we recognize that both saved and lost were praying with equal ferver, we think....

Whether we know it or not, and whether we can escape the feelings of youth of magic, and power, and spirits and religion; we must never give up on the rational explanation of all that is happening or ever will occur... When we say good luck, or God bless we are not saying nothing... We are expressing a real human concern and love for people, but in an old and roundabout fashion... We might better say: Make a due preparations for your actions, or be careful, but in a world where looks could kill, and a wish can make another ill the reflection of reality must be appeased as well...

Adulthood is only an illusion... People are always what they were as well as who they are.. The same is true of humanity, that the spirituality that once dominated all people all the time is repressed, but there... All concepts are spiritual in nature, and moral concept are spiritual, entirely... In that sense we can control the spirital world, and not with the burning of wicker men..

Let me warn you... All the power of modern science which is considerable is in the hands of madmen whose lives, beliefs, politics and principals are dominated by religious belief... Government should be the place were reasonable people come to face reality, consider the future, and prepare for it -seeking to avoid the obvious dangers.... Instead, faith rules, and in God we trust... It is nothing short of madness that such people who today rule us are not confined, and urged by all to trust in God and pray for the rest... Instead, because they are united in insanity they vote as a block and so control the governement, and thus, our futures...

I suppose we can't rule out the tiniest possibility, but it seems very unlikely to me, and I think Set's answer is the best explanation of why.

The problem with the term, "Magic" is that it carries with it an implication of getting something from nothing in a pure sense, otherwise it wouldn't be "magic", it would just be exotic physics, and I suspect that a stable Universe can not form with this level of chaos (true Magic) embedded within it.

However, we could redefine your assumptions slightly to improve the possibility of getting a Universe which more closely resembles Fantasy. For example, we could say, "is it possible that a Universe could form in which exotic physics might be accessible to people by thinking certain thoughts".

It's interesting that even within Fantasy stories, there is almost always a limit applied to the Magic any character has, or there are rules put in place which limit them. Otherwise even the Fantasy Universe becomes unstable.

But, if the laws of physics were different, TANSTAAFL might no longer be true.

TANSTAAFL transcends universes, gods, mothers-in-law . . . all the fundamental strong forces of the cosmos and beyond . . .

Laws of physics aren't laws of nature. Why is the content of your opening post inconsistent with the title of your thread?

These are intelligent and interesting posts. I merely want to add that my understanding of the "laws" of physics are no more than descriptions of our observed regularities in the ways things behave. They are not statutes that can only be violated by magic.

the thing about magic though is that , magic is about bioenergy rather physics

physics being what naturally happens between objects on their own

magic is about controlling what happens between objects by thought

The smaller and closer we get the more magical it appears to be.

Or the cost might be expressed in a manner which permits the concept of magic as we imagine it.

However, we probably need to continue our imaginings in seach of an alternative means of experiencing existence, since fundamental physics that allow for magic might render our current means meaningless.

Another problem here is what is meant by magic. As Arthur C. Clarke put it: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

right




do you play the slots ?

Magic requires a "Con" and a "Mark" , all is deception. There is no Hogwarts and we are all Muggles. (Cept some are Mugglier than uthers)

Physics is about natural realtionships, and magic, white and black, is about supernatural relationships.

Forgive the reply

Which explains why children are so inclined to accept the idea of magic, because surrounded by technology, and in want of knowledge, magic is the 'natural' answer if they are inclined to ask the question... Many simply accept...

There is a certain logic to it that to logical and knowledgeable people seems anything but logical... To a primitive, the notion of like influencing like might be most reasonable, that, for example, pouring water onto the ground might make it rain, though it may seem rubbish to us... Then we cannot explain how we do with concepts in a small fashion what we can then proceed to do with things in reality... Is there not some sympathetic connection between the thought and the thing, or between the symbol and object??? If we say not, then we have robbed thought of its magic though the whole of it is magical, and nothing but some magical or spiritual explanation can give analogy to thought... It is easier to rob magic of its reason than to rob reason of its magic...

I agree completely with this. And, magic--as is the case with religion, or political ideology or a belief that the Cubs can win another world series--has legions of devotées who want nothing more than to be conned.

The only laws of nature we know about are observable from this planet . Even the laws of gravity are assumed to be universal WITHOUT any variation. Some observations suggest the laws of gravity may not be unifom throughout the universe. Untill we get a handle on extra dimensions, zero point energy and the nature of the sub-atomic and galactic universes, it would be best not to say what we cant do, but rather what we know we can do.....and magic isnt one of them.

"cubs" was always an appropriate name wsnt it?