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Athiests prejudice against theistic beliefs

 
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:26 pm
@Setanta,
Here's your bamboo back.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:36 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
It all comes from mixing logic and religion, but just like my drinks, I keep on doing it without expecting a headache.
Dont flatter yourself...there is no logic in you lumping all religions together anymore than there is in lumping all non-believers into an Atheist camp.


All religions can be lumped together in any number of ways, as can any group of people for whatever reason. Or has someone drafted you into the Venn Police.

Certainly the kind of logic used in theistic arguments is devoid of any real logic. Take Pascals Wager for example. So obviously flawed it's not funny, yet still presented as a rational, logical reason for belief.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:40 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
I guess what it is true is that believers and non believers both believe in their beliefs since not certain in their "knowing"...case to say that each have their own believed "GOD" (Truth)...
I have been trying to convince them that Atheism takes as much religious faith as Theism but they are an emotional bunch of nellies, not capable of leaving their feelings out of their logic.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:42 pm
@Ionus,
or it could be you're wrong
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:43 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Pandaism - God is black and white and cute
God is black ????Oh, you are gonna burn in hell for that one.....I'm sending the local chapter of the KKK around.....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:45 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
has someone drafted you into the Venn Police.
I am the founder of the Venn Police Force so watch it !

Quote:
Certainly the kind of logic used in theistic arguments is devoid of any real logic.
There is far less logic in Atheism. How do you prove a negative ?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:46 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
or it could be you're wrong
That is also a possibility, one if applied to them they will NOT entertain for a moment.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:53 pm
@Ionus,
As has been so often pointed out, it depends on how each of us define atheism. I'm one of the most hardcore atheists on A2K, yet I would probably be defined as an agnostic who is so incredibly skeptical of all god-claims so far presented that "atheist" is the most applicable label. Officially, you'd want to call me an agnostic I suppose, but that label implies ambivalence to me, when I'm certainly not that.
Babies are born atheists, and they don't claim to be able to prove a negative either.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:56 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
Take Pascals Wager for example.


The problem I've had with Pascal's wager is the negative aspect associated with the outcome that God exists but one doesn't believe. This relies on the whole idea of a judgmental God or a God that says that if you don't believe in me (or my son) then you are banished to hell. I find the idea that a being so powerful to be God would have such a need to have his (her) ego stroked irrational. God (if he exists) is much more likely to judge us on our life's work, our karma, if you will. In fact God would not necessarily have to do this judging, He would set up a system that provides this outcome, aka - karma. Also, what if one believes in the wrong God, will this judgment be worse? What about the poor children who have no other information than to believe in Allah or Krishna? The business about the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus is also ludicrous to me. That is way too easy, just come to Jesus just before you die? Really?

If we are judged at all, it will be based upon how we treated our fellow man and what we contributed to the welfare of the world. Woe be it to those who set themselves up as judges and pass spiteful and mean spirited sentences!

In reality I think the metaphor has much more to do with how we experience our life here on earth. Give forth goodness and mercy and you shall reap goodness and mercy. That message has been completely lost on those caught up in the quest for heaven.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 09:06 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
Babies are born atheists
Babies are born Agnostic.

Agnosticism is not ambivalence. It simply means keeping an open mind untill someone can prove one way or the other. Having the same attitude to the difficulty of proving either belief is simply being sensible. Within that framework, you can have an opinion. Theism takes faith, Atheism takes faith, but Agnosticism takes the logical approach. Whilst being Agnostic I have the opinion that a personal God does not exist, but I know enough of science to be openminded about the powers that are attributable to a non-personal God may exist as a "blind" force.

Logically, the whole concept of a God fits in with all science but so does there not being a God. It is the literal aspect of the Bible that creates conflict. It takes as much faith to make an illogical conclusion either way .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 09:15 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
This relies on the whole idea of a judgmental God or a God that says that if you don't believe in me (or my son) then you are banished to hell.
You are showing very little understanding of Christian religion. Hell is not the place where fire and brim stone has been speculated as existing.....it is simply not knowing God. Words do not do justice to the concept, but those who believe will meet God. Those who dont will face an enternity without God. God in this sense is somewhat similar to reaching enlightenment.

Quote:
What if one believes in the wrong God, will this judgment be worse? What about the poor children who have no other information than to believe in Allah or Krishna?
You are judged by your treatment of people. Whether you believe in God is dependant on the opportunity you have to believe. Those who do not have the opportunity would spend some "time" learning before being accepted to heaven. Opportunity can also include knowing of God but for reasons of personality being unable to make the connection.

The only ones truly headed for hell are those who believe in God and WHILST STILL BELIEVING turn away from God. There are also mortal sins like murder. If you were to die without having deep regret for those sins you would go to hell.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 09:33 pm
@Ionus,
You're just making definitive statements based on your presumption of the definitions. You're arguing semantics, not the arguments themselves.

Why don't you at least read wikipedia's definitions; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Then come back and stop making inaccurate claims about others beliefs (and the lack thereof)

"As far back as 1772, Baron d'Holbach said that "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 09:39 pm
@Eorl,
Actually, it sounds like he thinks he is the god mouthpiece.......
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 09:54 pm
@BillW,
Indeed. Seems he sits in all-knowing judgement of claims of all-knowingness that we have not actually made. Irony anyone?
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:15 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Bullshit........

Tolerance for beliefs and allowing murder are far different.

Don't try to take political advantage of another's misfortune.


Bullshit yourself.

We're talking death penalty here. You'll find a vast range of beliefs (sometimes religious) on the matter. I say it's never right, and have no respect for the dissenting view.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:37 pm
@Eorl,
Do you realise I didnt even mention Atheism in the post you replied to ?

Quote:
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Quote:
atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Quote:
theism refers to a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and God's relationship to the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Do you disagree with those definitions ? I dont.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:41 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
Actually, it sounds like he thinks he is the god mouthpiece.......
You have no knowledge of this topic and you want to criticise those who do for sounding knowledgable......put your ego away.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:43 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
Indeed. Seems he sits in all-knowing judgement of claims of all-knowingness that we have not actually made. Irony anyone?
It doesnt matter to me what it seems to you....when I think of you as thoughtful and logical, then you opinion will be important. Stupidity anyone ?
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:50 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
WIKIPEDIA atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.



Or, to copy and paste the entire sentence...

Quote:
WIKIPEDIA Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.


Your M.O. is clear.

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 10:54 pm
@Eorl,
You are obviously unaware of this, but MANY words have differing meanings depending on the use. I was showing you the use I intended when I use that word. Your inability to understand religion and ability to visualise conspiracies against you is only matched by your lack of knowledge on the topic.
 

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