No, it's up to you to accept that not everybody else believes the same as you.
What I do/do not believe is not up for discussion. It's none of your damn business.
[/quote
O.k. You are revealing the real reason why you reject the gospel. I don't need to discuss it with you anymore. However Frank has stated that he wants to talk about it. And others may be interested.
Where did I say I rejected the Gospel?
I reject what you say about it.
I am not very familiar with Eastern Religions but here is the Judeo/Christian belief:
God has always existed. He created the angels. Then He created the physical universe.
Adam and Eve were created with a spirit,soul,and body. When they sinned they died spiritually. Their minds and bodies also got messed up. Since they were representatives of the animals the animals suffered the same consequences.
Jesus made it possible for spiritual rebirth. As the Holy Spirit works in the lives of believers there is a renewing of the person's mind. The body is restored after the believer physically dies.
Satan (a fallen angel) will do anything possible to interfere with the believer's spiritual growth. He will also do whatever he can to deceive non-believers. For example, Satan knows that he can give a form of peace to a person who practices Eastern meditation. As long as Satan can keep the person away from God, he doesn't care. If Satan gets the chance, he is more than willing to cause other forms of destruction to the non-believer's life.
We have been promised that both biblical Judaism and Christianity will always exist.
If you don't want to talk about it anymore that is fine with me.
Perhaps I suffer from what I call "spiritual OCD".
The reason for it is that I am praying for your salvation AND I know that God is likely to cause pain in your life in achieving this. I would rather that you avoid the pain.
There is absolutely no way I KNOW that any gods exist...and there is no way ANYONE here should KNOW that a god exists. All anyone can do on the question of whether at least one god exists...is to make a blind guess.
I have never changed my position on the issue...I have offered essentially the same one for over 20 years in this forum and in its predecessor, Abuzz. Here it is again:
I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.
Quote:There is absolutely no way I KNOW that any gods exist...and there is no way ANYONE here should KNOW that a god exists. All anyone can do on the question of whether at least one god exists...is to make a blind guess.
I have never changed my position on the issue...I have offered essentially the same one for over 20 years in this forum and in its predecessor, Abuzz. Here it is again:
I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.
Frank- I have been with you all the way,(Yes kids, I was on Abuzz too over 20 years ago) But now I find one major difference in our thinking. I don't know if there is a god or not............but I don't give a damn.
There has been more war, misery and various other negative goings on over the centuries in the name of religion. What I do respect is the desire of primitive peoples to make some sense of their existence. But I would have hoped that by this time, people would have realized that what was written many centuries ago was only a guess, and an unsophisticated guess at that.
(1) God impresses on my spirit certain truths that will occur in the near future. It is entirely at His pleasure. I have no role in controlling it.
(2) God empowers me to do things that I have no power inside myself to do. Again, it is entirely at His pleasure.
(3) God empowers me to say wise things that I never intended to say. Again, it is at His pleasure (and the edification of the people I am talking to).
(4) God informs my spirit of truths about other people that I have no way of knowing otherwise. Again, it is at His pleasure and the edification of the other person.
(5) God gives me understanding of the Bible during private study. This did not occur before I became a Christian.
(6) Either God or an angel has prevented harmful accidents to happen to me a few times. For example I was a few yards away from a car accident several years ago. Physical laws were altered so that both parties ended up safe and sound due to no accident occurring.
Frank---these things can't possibly be duplicated to your satisfaction.
(7) God gives me peace of mind despite difficult circumstances. This is the only one where I play any kind of role. However, it is God Who provides the peace.
Ñote: For me it is all in my native tongue which is English. I will leave it to someone else to discuss the subject of "speaking in tongues".
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I would say it is politics that does the harm. A lot of good things came from Christianity. However, man's desire for power,wealth,and fame has overcome the positive aspects that come from religion.
(1) millions of people have experienced what I have experienced. And this is not a one time event (except the near car accident). It is a lifetime experience.
(2) As Bulma pointed out we don't perceive even some of physical reality with our senses. If a whistle is blown that can only be heard by dogs do we say that the dogs are deluding themselves because we can't hear it?
(3) Since I became a Christian I "can do in Christ" what I could not do before. And I am not in control of it. Therefore I can not be deluding myself into doing it.
Genesis Chapter 6
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Genesis Chapter 7
1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Genesis Chapter 8
1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15 And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis Chapter 9
1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
Nuclear power plants are always situated near a body of water—a river, lake, estuary or ocean—because they require a plentiful, reliable source of water for cooling purposes.
First...
If we open up the latter part of the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, we read the intriguing account of the Israelite prince named Joseph, captured and sold as a slave in Egypt. In short, through a series of crazy events, he rises in power until he is also a prince of Egypt, second only to the Pharoh himself.
Then Joseph has a dream warning him of impending famine. So for seven years, he stockpiles every spare bit of grain and food available in Egypt.
Then? DISASTER.
A famine hits the ENTIRE ancient world, that lasts for SEVEN years (and Egypt survives, as does likely the entire human race due to Prince Joseph's foresight).
The description of this famine fits modern scenarios and projections of a nuclear winter following a global, all out nuclear war, a winter (or mini-ice age) that is projected by modern meteorologists and war planners to last between 5 and 10 years...
Read about it yourself in Genesis chapter 41. Twice towards the end of the chapter, it mentions the severity of the famine in relation to the entire world, and in looking at the original Hebrew text, it does indeed refer to the inhabitants of the entire earth, not just the Middle East. (Remember, various ancient peoples were known to be expert seamen, and for this phrase to refer to the entire world, and for Egypt to feed the entire world, was not a huge logistical impossibility. Difficult, yes, but NOT impossible. But they also had more than just ships to get around in too. Keep reading...)
But that's not all.
Second....
The Bible also talks, between the lines, about another effect of this nuclear war: Radiation poisoning of the human race.
If you read through the generations of men immediately proceeding Joseph, and note their lifespans, they consistently average between 175 and 200 years. Then Prince Joseph comes along, and not a single person after him lives more than 130 years (and most much less).
SOMETHING happened during the lifetime of Joseph that cut the expected lifespan of man almost in half, worldwide. The only thing that fits is global radiation poisoning.
As a side note, the Genesis account seems to indicate that the famine has something to do with something EAST of Israel. Keep this in mind.
Date according to the Biblical account? 2000BC give or take. Keep this date in mind.
But of course I hear some people saying right now, that that Bible isn't legitimate history (even though it has never been categorically proven false - in fact most archaeological finds we make seem only to validate Biblical recorded history, rather than disprove it).
So let's go to another source of ancient written history. The history of India, as recorded in the Mahabharata (a land EAST of Israel)....
And I quote, directly from the manuscripts themselves:
Using flying machines called Vimanas that were used to launch powerful weapons of destruction, the Mahabharata records that someone brought death to the people...
"The Earth shook, scorched by the terrible heat of this weapon. Elephants burst into flames and ran to and fro in a frenzy, seeking a protection from terror. Over a vast area other animals crumpled to the ground and died. The waters boiled, and the creatures residing therein also died. From all points of the compass the arrows of the flame rained continuously! "
This destruction was caused by, " a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe!"
Elsewhere we read, " An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousand suns rose in all its splendour. It was the unknown weapon, the iron thunderbolt, .....a gigantic messenger of death!"
Continuing on, "The corpses were so burnt that they were no longer recognisable. Hair and nails fell out. Pottery broke without cause. Birds, disturbed, circled in the air and were turned white. Foodstuffs were poisoned!"
Does this sound suspiciously like nuclear weapons to you too?
Approximate Date of this manuscript? Between 2000BC and 3000BC...
The legend of Atlantis...
Briefly, the legends of Atlantis pretty much all refer to a very technologically advanced civilization with air flight capabilities, that disappeared beneath the sea in a single cataclysmic event. Some of the best modern research into the legends verify that the civilization likely did indeed exist, and that it was destroyed, presumably by a volcanic eruption/explosion like in Pompei's destruction (or a nuclear explosion?).
The trouble is that they're not sure which volcano...
Best estimate of a date for the disappearance of Atlantis? Roughly 2000BC.
Seen this date before?
The legends of Lemuria...
Legends of Lemuria are even more spotty than those of Atlantis. But in brief, they were also supposedly very technologically advanced, and then disappeared suddenly.
Then you have the Greek legends of a war collectively referred to as "The Clash of the Titans"... And while the specific details may have become shrouded in myth, the point remains: they agree that there was an incredibly destructive war fought between very advanced civilizations.
How about the legends found worldwide of little people, leprechauns, fairies, gnomes, etc and so forth, (google "little people skeletons"), races of humans whose founding civilizations got wiped out by SOMETHING?
Or how about the legends found worldwide of literal giants (including references to them in multiple ancient religious scripts of diverse religions and continents), big foots, sasquatches, etc and so forth, (google "giant skeletons" - some might be hoaxes, but ALL of them?), races of humans whose initial civilization(s) got wiped out by SOMETHING?
Legends from the Valley of Death in Siberia, Russia...
Deep in the heart of Siberia lies a strange valley where the locals fear to tread because people that go there have a tendency to not come home. Indeed, even some modern explorers have fallen strangely and gravely ill when exploring this area (near Tunguska, site of an unexplained, massive, nuclear bomb-sized explosion about a hundred years ago, long before WWII). The locals understandably call it the Valley of Death.
But the weird part is that the locals also have legends associated with the valley. They include details of an ancient war fought between highly advanced races, using huge weapons located here that apparently were capable of shooting down threats from the air (including interplanetary threats - according to the history channel anyway).
And there ARE apparently technologically advanced relics and ancient ruins to be found in the area, that have not yet been excavated...
When asked by a newspaper reporter about the first atomic explosion, Robert Openheimer, widely considered to be the father of the atomic bomb, apparently answered with something cryptic about the explosion being the first one in modern times."
He is also widely noted to have quoted Indian history while watching his first nuclear explosion, "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds..."
Frederick Soddy, a well known physicist from around the turn of the last century, said this in 1909. "I believe that there have been civilizations in the past that were familiar with atomic energy, and that by misusing it they were totally destroyed."
Seas of Glass...
On every single continent, there are areas where they can find or have found what some people have dubbed "Seas of Glass," either on the surface, or buried under centuries of dirt, where the sand and/or dirt has literally been fused by intense heat into glass. The colour of these seas varies according to the mineral content, but they are everywhere. And they are, practically speaking, identical to the ones that were created by the US Government in the Nevada desert when they were first testing the modern atomic bomb.
The previous explanation for all these phenomena was "meterorites", but the patterns are all wrong. For instance, for a meteor to create that kind of heat requires an impact. These "Seas of Glass" generally have no impact craters associated with them...
Would you believe that the moon even has at least one sea of glass on it? (More on this in a minute.)
The bomb site of India and radioactive ruins...
In short, the government of India wanted to build a new housing community. So in the region of Rajasthan, India, an area that covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur, they surveyed the land and built houses. People moved in, but started getting sick. ALOT of people. When they went in to find out why, they discovered that the entire area was inexplicably radioactive, and in a circular pattern (with a very radioactively hot ground zero point) consistent with what occurs underneath a typical air-burst nuclear detonation.
They evacuated the area, and it is now essentially a quarantined wasteland.
They have also excavated entire cities where the people and their skeletons have been fossilized, frozen in time at their moment of instantaneous death, and the skeletons are RADIOACTIVE.
