is not water more than just its bonds ?

Look at surface tension.

I thought so, such are the perils of asymmetic communication

Oh, cool, you have read it now.

You're asking the right question. Hmmm. Wondering how best to explain it.

If you look at a stone it's just a stone, but if you step back it might be part of an avalanche, or a beach, or a gravel driveway. A single unit does not necessarily tell you much about the behaviour of lots of those units in large numbers.

The states of matter are only observable at the macro level, at the individual atomic level they are meaningless. You can't melt an atom or boil it. It is the base unit of matter, indivisible except in extreme cases - and even then it won't melt or boil, it can only split into subatomic particles or convert its mass into energy.

I'm hoping someone else can do a better job than me.

Sorry North that's completely wrong. A single atom is a single atom.

Temperature itself has no meaning at the atomic level - did you know that temperature is merely a measure of the average kinetic energy levels of a large group of atomic particles? (be they a christmas turkey, a baby's mouth, or the air in your kitchen).

so the less kinetic energy , hydrogen and oxygen become a liquid

Quote:

so the less kinetic energy , hydrogen and oxygen become a liquid

Yes, large groups of molecules and/or atoms become appear as different states of matter depending on their average level of kinetic energy.

When the atoms/molecules have no kinetic energy they are said to be at 'absolute zero' or zero degrees kelvin. As you add kinetic energy the atoms/molecules vibrate and temperature rises. The more energy the larger the vibration until the vibration manifests itself as random movement from a base position (this is the melting point and you get a liquid).

If you keep increasing the energy levels the random movement gets wilder and creates space between the particles (i.e the fluid becomes compressible - this is boiling point and we have a gas) - keep going and you get the fourth state, plasma, where the particles are so energised they are stripped of their electrons.

I wish ebrown was here - he was actually a physics teacher and could do a better job of explaining this than me.

if I collect a mass , physical atoms , together , then usually , I end up with a solid

but with hydrogen and oxygen atoms together to form a molecule , I get a room temp. liquid

why ?

since the kinetic energy of both types of atoms has increased

but it is in the lower temp. that the individual atom produces a liquid

at lower kinetic energy state

there is a contradiction , you see

The H2O molecule is a very different beast to it's atomic constituents. Oxygen is extremely reactive, as is hydrogen. Ionic hydrogen is very keen to get an electron and ionic oxygen is very keen to share two, thus the very tight chemical bond between them. A water molecule is extremely stable, free hydrogen and oxygen can't help but bind. Even though they individually may have kinetic energy levels that make them gases the act of binding releases energy (in effect you are burning hydrogen to create its oxide) and creating strong polar attractions. The loss of energy and the increased attraction will, at room temperature, create liquid water.

so the release of kinetic energy is by heat

to your last

the loss of energy , and increased attraction as a result does create a liquid but this explaination , does not still explain a liquid state

there is even no explanation of why extremely low energy state , should naturally produce a liquid state of this element , H or O

there is even no explanation of why extremely low energy state , should naturally produce a liquid state of this element , H or O

I'm not sure why but your questions don't always make sense to me. Who said anything about extremely low energy states? And what do you mean by 'this element'? Water? Water isn't an element.