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A Message to Michael

 
 
Dasein
 
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 12:47 pm
Michael;

I stumbled upon your review of The Genesis of Heidegger's Being and Time and I would like to chat with you about it.

I am beginning my 74th reading of Being and Time. I bought the book in 1995 and have been reading it for the past 15 years. I have also read Heidegger’s History of the Concept of Time 70 times.

I have found the problem with reading Heidegger has nothing to do with the subject matter. Heidegger is brilliant and what he is pointing at deserves to be heard. The problem is with the reader, the translator of his works, the editors that edit the translations, the professors who teach Heidegger, the English language, and even Heidegger himself adds to the problem of what he is talking about.

The problem with reading Heidegger and for that matter any philosophy is that as Heidegger says it in Being and Time, in Part II, section 5, bottom of 2nd paragraph, “To be sure, its ownmost Being is such that it has an understanding of that Being, and already maintains itself in each case as if its Being has been interpreted in some manner.” “The kind of Being which belongs to Dasein is rather such that, in understanding its own Being, it has a tendency to do so in terms of that entity towards which it comports itself proximally and in a way which is essentially constant – in terms of the 'world'. In Dasein itself, and therefore in its understanding of Being, the way the world is understood is, as we shall show, reflected back ontologically upon the way in which Dasein gets interpreted.”

In other words, we are 'thrown' to interpret who we are as a measurable, definable, thing and when we read Heidegger and all philosophy, we interpret Heidegger and all philosophy as a measurable, definable, thing to understand. This is why reading and studying philosophy provides no resolution or freedom (our birthright).

Let me show you what I mean by Heidegger himself adds to the problem. In 1995 I typed all 387 pages of Being and Time (Harper's) on my computer and as I said earlier I am reading it for the 74th time. Around the 70th reading I changed 'being' to 'Be-ing' where appropriate. Then I changed 'Dasein' to 'being-there' because I found when I read 'being' and 'Dasein' my tendency was to 'objectify' what Heidegger was saying by turning 'being' and 'Dasein' into things to understand.

That being said the following is how I have re-written what Heidegger said in Part II, section 5, bottom of 2nd paragraph, “Be-ing is such that it is an understanding of Be-ing, and already maintains itself as if Be-ing has been interpreted in some manner.” “The kind of Be-ing which belongs to Being-there (Dasein) is rather such that it has a tendency to do so in terms of that entity towards which it comports itself proximally and in a way which is essentially constant – in terms of the 'world'.

That last sentence needs to be re-stated as to not be overlooked. “In Being-there (Dasein), the way the world is understood is reflected back ontologically upon the way in which Being-there (Dasein) gets interpreted.”

In other words, you interpret who you are as if you are the world you live in. You are not the world you live along side of. Who you are is the 'My' in 'My finger', you are not the 'finger' which is measurable and definable. Just for the hell of it look up 'My' and 'I' in the dictionary. 'My' and 'I' are both defined as “used by a speaker in referring to himself or herself”. They can't be defined, only you have the power to uncover who you are.

When we read Heidegger we aren't Be-ing the conversation. Evidenced by the wording that Heidegger uses, I really don't know if he was Be-ing what he wrote or whether his writing was a compilation of historical 'hints'. He also could have been a slave to literary convention. I do know this, that whether he was Be-ing what he wrote, whether Being and Time is a compilation of historical 'hints', or whether he was a slave to 'literary convention' doesn't matter. What matters is if you are Be-ing the conversation. If you keep the 'conversation' at arm's length by 'objectifying' what Heidegger is saying, you aren't engaged in the conversation and you are missing out on the possibility of Be-ing your 'self'. You end up spending your time on the planet perpetuating the 'cover-up' and blaming others for your circumstances.

One last tidbit. When you said "That death is a primary aspect of what it means to be human. If you are aware of death as he says, then you can be aware of the meaning of life. The meaning of life comes to us because we understand that we are finite, that we are mortal and not in control." You missed what Heidegger was saying. You are speaking of death as if it is a thing, an event that happens. The moment you are born, you are already dead, you just don't know when it will happen. That's a given, a non-issue that doesn't even need to be talked about. By the way, speaking of 'death' as an event that happens to your/others physical body is all the evidence you need to prove to your 'self' that you are a victim of your 'thrownness' to interpret Heidegger, all philosophy, and everything you read as a measurable, definable, thing to understand. You are 'thrown' to interpret your 'self' as a definable, measurable, physical 'thing'.

What Heidegger is talking about when he speaks of 'running towards death', 'anticipatory resoluteness' and 'death' is the following:

As you de-construct the 'world' and disentangle your 'self' from the measurabilty and definability of it, you come to a point where you can no longer prove the existence of your 'self'. When you come face-to-face with the "possibility of the impossibility of your existence" who you've been Be-ing dies so that you can be your 'self'. You uncover/discover that anything is possible and that you are no longer a slave to proving your existence. This is the 'death' Heidegger is talking about. In Be-ing you 'anticipate resolving' 'death' so that you can be your 'self'. This is the essence of human freedom. In Be-ing you answer the question "Who am I?"
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Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 12:52 pm
And take a message to Michael, message to Michael
Ask him to start for home today
When you find him please let him know
Rich or poor, I will always love him so
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 01:00 pm
I love that song and Dionne Warwick's voice when she sings it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 01:02 pm
I love everything she ever sang. I was an R & B addict back in the day.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 02:34 pm
@Dasein,
Dasein wrote:
I have found the problem with reading Heidegger has nothing to do with the subject matter. Heidegger is brilliant and what he is pointing at deserves to be heard. The problem is with the reader, the translator of his works, the editors that edit the translations, the professors who teach Heidegger, the English language, and even Heidegger himself adds to the problem of what he is talking about.

That's funny. I found the biggest problem with reading Heidegger is that he's full of ****.
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2010 02:59 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I love everything she ever sang. I was an R & B addict back in the day.


She was much more pop than r & b. I would never put her on in the same bill as Aretha Franklin when it comes to genre but yes, everything she sang was marvelous. What a voice.
0 Replies
 
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2010 07:31 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
That's funny. I found the biggest problem with reading Heidegger is that he's full of ****.


What you see is what you get. Unfortunately nobody but you has control over what you see.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2010 06:09 pm
@Dasein,
Quote:
What you see is what you get. Unfortunately nobody but you has control over what you see


Good point !

For me, and others no doubt, the main problem with Heidegger is not his brilliant paradigm construction, but his kowtowing to the Nazis.

Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2010 06:30 pm
@fresco,
The conversation you have while reading Heidegger has nothing to do with him. The conversation is yours and yours alone. Every philosopher from before Parmenides has kowtowed, their decision to kowtow had to do with their survival. Their kowtowing and survival has nothing to do with their thinking other than the fact that they wanted to survive so they could think. Socrates had to deal with the 'elders' in Greek Society, other philosophers had to join the church to survive, while others had to survive the Spanish Inquisition.

All of this is has nothing to do with you or myself thinking through the thinking that is contained in "Being and Time". As I pointed out in my post, I have read "Being & Time" 74 times. Coming up with reasons for not doing the work is the easy way out, but you already know that.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2010 02:02 am
@Dasein,
Perhaps you would explain how his concept of "authenticity" can be reconciled with his wartime actions. (It was not merely a question of "survival". He could have moved abroad - which many of his former colleagues were forced to do with his complicity.)
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2010 07:43 am
@fresco,
I'm not Heidegger and even he couldn't reconcile this for you. There is only one person on this planet who can reconcile it for you and that's you. Either you put down the turd or you spend a lifetime complaining about the smell to everybody. Good luck!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2010 07:45 am
What a conceited and arrogant son of a bitch you are.
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2010 09:12 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

What a conceited and arrogant son of a bitch you are.


Thank you for noticing.
0 Replies
 
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Nov, 2010 05:57 pm
You're the man Daesin.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 02:42 am
@NAACP,
Not quite...

As Heidegger himself said, "Language Speaks the Man"

... Wink
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 06:58 am
@fresco,
Ah, yes indeed! lol
0 Replies
 
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 08:31 am
@fresco,
NAACP & fresco;

Actually, what Heidegger said was "Be-ing languages". I take that to mean that who you are Be-ing languages it's 'self' from it's existence into the world. Languaging comes before all concept creation, theorizing, and conjecture. 'You' show up long before speaking and thinking. What occurs before all speaking, thinking, concept creation, theorizing, and conjecture is Be-ing.

This is your authentic 'self'. 'You' show up long before the world , before talking about the world, and before representing your 'self' as a thing of the 'world'.

Authenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as what happens before the concept creation, the theorizing, and the conjecture. Inauthenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as a thing of the world.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 09:20 am
@Dasein,
I refer to the later Heidegger who had moved on from Sein und Zeit
Quote:
Heidegger’s 1950 contemplation of language’s potential characterizes the extreme of his later writing, a complex and often convoluted poetics that has been criticized as “repetitive and obscure, a form of smoke and mirrors.” He argues that “language speaks man,” (1120) a complete reversal of the traditional contention that speech, and therefore language, is the expression, presentation and representation of the real and unreal. Heidegger is entirely dedicated to turning this argument on its head, insisting that language is the only pre-existing condition, not humankind. While the prevalent viewpoint asserts that language could not exist without man, Heidegger asserts that man could not exist without language. This is the core of his conception of language as the creator of human consciousness, a malleable and omnipresent phenomenological force that “speaks man” by facilitating thought.

(From googling "language speaks the man".)
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 12:04 pm
@fresco,
Fresco;

What you quoted is written in the 3rd person, and it appears not to be Heidegger's style of writing. Therefore this must be somebody else's interpretation of what Heidegger said. I'm not familiar with any work by Heidegger called "Heidegger 1950 contemplation".

This person is writing as if languaging is a 'thing' called "speech, and therefore language".

In your post you quoted, "Heidegger is entirely dedicated to turning this argument on its head, insisting that language is the only pre-existing condition, not humankind."

This is exactly what I said in my reference to languaging, only I said languaging, not 'language'.

More to your point. You also quoted, "He argues that “language speaks man,” (1120) a complete reversal of the traditional contention that speech, and therefore language, is the expression, presentation and representation of the real and unreal."

Again, this is not written in the style that Heidegger would write it. I suggest to you that the author has taken interpretive liberties with what Heiddgger said. Of course, we all do. So lets dig into what that author actually wrote.

It is very easy to make a leap of faith and say that what Heidegger said was "languaging speaks Be-ing into existence", instead of "language speaks man".

The word 'language' is a combination of characteristics (a concept) which could mean Spanish, German, bad language, etc. 'Language' could also be a conclusion that references what happens between the beginning and end of speaking.

Languaging happens before you use German, Spanish, or English to speak Be-ing into existence. How would you tell your audience that languaging happens before you speak the English language?

Can you see the problem the author was faced with?

Once the author turned languaging into a thing called speech the only thing he could do was complete the string of accepted thought with ”and therefore language, is the expression, presentation and representation of the real and unreal.”

Coupled with all of that and knowing what I know about what Heidgegger says in the book “On the Way to Language” (1959) it's not hard to see why the author changed 'authentic' and 'inauthentic' to the 'real' and 'unreal'. Authenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as what happens before the concept creation, the theorizing, and the conjecture (real). Inauthenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as a thing of the world (the unreal). (from my earlier post with additions)

And, if you'll take a moment to notice, the title of the book points to something occurring prior to language, or, ”On the Way to Language”.

Since our proclivity as humans Be-ing is to find comfort in 'substantiality' and the fact that this author had to write for an audience that probably wouldn't understand what Heidegger was talking about when he spoke of 'languaging' and 'Be-ing', I think the author took some 'interpretive liberties' for the benefit of his audience, he thought.

All of the above I am intimately aware of which is why in my post to NAACP & fresco, I said:

“Actually, what Heidegger said was that "Be-ing languages". I take that to mean that who you are Be-ing languages it's 'self' from it's existence prior to entering into the world. Languaging comes before all concept creation, theorizing, and conjecture. 'You' show up long before speaking and thinking. What occurs before all speaking, thinking, concept creation, theorizing, and conjecture is Be-ing.

This is your authentic 'self'. 'You' show up long before the world, before talking about the world, and before representing your 'self' as a thing of the 'world'.

Authenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as what happens before the concept creation, the theorizing, and the conjecture. Inauthenticity is re-presenting your 'self' as a thing of the world.”

I have added the italicized “prior to entering” for clarity, I hope.
0 Replies
 
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Nov, 2010 02:12 pm
Still difficult for me to 'understand', but I am however enjoying the 'conversation in my head' as you put it. Thanks again.
 

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