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What should happen with this baby?

 
 
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 08:47 am
And by "baby" I mean both the mother and the child.

Quote:
When a 10-year-old girl showed up at Portland Adventist Hospital this month complaining of stomach cramps, doctors discovered she was pregnant.

In fact, she was approximately 31 weeks along.

Now, the fiance of the girl's mother is facing first-degree rape and first-degree sexual abuse allegations.

Juan Martinez-Rodriguez, 30, was arrested Tuesday about 3:30 p.m. in the area of East Burnside and 102nd Avenue. He was arraigned in Multnomah County Circuit Court this afternoon.

During an interview with police Tuesday, Martinez-Rodriguez provided a DNA sample and admitted to a Gresham detective that he had intercourse with the girl, according to a probable cause affidavit in court.

Martinez-Rodriguez is being held on $500,000 bail. His next court date is Oct. 28.


If the girl's mother was unaware of the abuse should she be allowed to retain custody of her daughter? Of her grandchild? If so, should the father be made to pay child support? Can they make someone in prison pay child support?

If the girl's mothers rights are terminated should an effort be made for both the girl and her baby to be adopted by the same family even though that would make them, legally, siblings?

Should the girl be allowed a threaputic abortion even though she is so far along in her pregnancy?

What do you think?

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Type: Question • Score: 21 • Views: 7,157 • Replies: 83

 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:04 am
@boomerang,
Will taking the child to its inevitable birth physically endanger the mother/child?

It is already highly likely that the mother/child has been mentally/emotionally injured and will be at high risk for further emotional/mental dangers given her early traumas and future responsibilities that no child that age should ever be exposed to.

Personally, I am for the abortion and counseling of the mother/child for the rest of her life.

I think the father should never be allowed access to the ten year old until the ten year old is old enough to access the emotional level to demand a proper and deserved apology from her abominable father. If she chooses to have a normal father/daughter relationship after this possible reconciliation (so far down into the future from now) then so be it. Right now, the father needs to be thrown into both a physical and spiritual jail that he'll never see the light of day for decades to come. If he never learns to hate himself and regret his monstrous act, then never let him see the light of day ever again.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:05 am
I would go with the abortion . . . i doubt that it is reasonable to assume that the child can make a rational decision in the matter, and i suspect the child's mother knew her "fiance" as a piece of s**t . . .
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:12 am
holy cow bommer, anyway the case with the "father" would be a D.A. case outside the purview of childrens court, a comprehensive medical evaluation including pre-natal would be established, abortion would not be considered sans medical need. A court would be requested to find CPS protective supervision while CPS determines capability of maintaining the family vs foster care.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:29 am
I know that in some situations that late term abortion is allowed and, frankly, I think that would be best in this situation. I do wonder whether an abortion at this stage, on such a young girl, might affect her furture fertility.

I could almost see them being adopted into the same family but that would result in lie after lie after lie after lie. Not healthy.

Adoption seperatley is also possible. The baby would most likely be adopted immediately while the mom would probably langish in foster care for the rest of her youth. People are very skeptical about adopting older kids from foster care as they often come with big problems that require massive amounts of money to deal with. (There was an interesting report issued by the Evan B. Donaldson Institute on just this topic the other day.)

I think there could be a possiblility that the mom didn't know. Pedophiles are supposed to be very, very good at gaining trust and covering their tracks.

I also know how people are quick to dismiss problematic behavior changes in kids this age as being due to "developmental" issues. (I see/hear this kind of thing all the time.)

Anyway.... I have to dash off to teach an art class to a group of 10 year olds.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:31 am
is a retroactive abortion for the fiance out of the question (and possibly the 10 year olds mother as well)
0 Replies
 
MonaLeeza
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 02:34 pm
@boomerang,
I am not sure that in this case an abortion would be less traumatic than a live birth. An abortion at this stage in the pregnancy involves a fully- formed probably viable baby which I suspect the child would prefer to deliver alive than dead.... that's just my feeling though as a mother and someone who was 10 yo herself once and I think ultimately the child should be given the choice in consultation with her doctors.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 02:44 pm
Here are some sideline questions:
Will the 10 year old be removed from her present day school and moved to another school system after giving birth to a child?

What has her schoolmates been told regarding her absence if they in fact are aware of the pregnancy?

If the 10 year old is forced to go through with this pregnancy, what social consequences will she have amongst her peers if this pregnancy is known/publicized/leaked into the school system?

Since the 10 year old can not financially or emotionally take care of the child and the baby is removed to a foster home system or out and out adoption away from the mother and immediate family, what will the consequences of an existing child be for this 10 year old? Emotional distractions perhaps while the 10 year old goes back to 5th grade?

These questions may not seem relevant in the immediate now but they do hold far more weight then those advocates for keeping the pregnancy to full term.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 03:00 pm
@boomerang,
I'm going to answer these questions before reading anyone elses posts, so I can see where I stand now, and if anyone here makes me think differently.

boomerang wrote:

If the girl's mother was unaware of the abuse should she be allowed to retain custody of her daughter? Of her grandchild? If so, should the father be made to pay child support? Can they make someone in prison pay child support?

If the mother was unaware of the abuse, she should be allowed to retain custody, and the grandchild should stay with her mother and grandmother. They are a family.
If the bastard rapist is in prison, how can he pay child support? He wont' have any income? I think his assets should be sold and the proceeds given to the family


If the girl's mothers rights are terminated should an effort be made for both the girl and her baby to be adopted by the same family even though that would make them, legally, siblings?

YES!!!
Legal schmegal, this girl is the babys mother! They are not siblings, they are mother and child.


Should the girl be allowed a threaputic abortion even though she is so far along in her pregnancy?

No. If this baby was born now, the odds are overwhelming s/he would survive.

According to the March of Dimes...

Length of Pregnancy Likelihood of Survival
23 weeks 17%
24 weeks 39%
25 weeks 50%
26 weeks 80%
27 weeks 90%
28-31 weeks 90-95%
32-33 weeks 95%
34+ weeks Almost as likely as a full-term baby

Theraputic abortion?
As opposed to what? the 10 year old having a C-section and having a living person in this world? Or knocking her out and ripping a near formed baby from her body?

Even if the baby doesn't/shouldn't stay with the mother, there is nothing theraputic about not giving this baby a chance.
How will the 10 year old think when she's 20, 30, 40, 50, and well beyond when she thinks about how she very well could have given this fetus a chance, with or without her.
Somehow, I don't think she would ever say, when she's 30 "I wish they had made me have an abortion when I was 10"


What do you think?


That's what I think.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 03:17 pm
@chai2,
I think you summed it up quite nicely.

I don't know, but I think an abortion at this stage (unless the mom's life is at stake and could they do a C-section then?) - seems cruel for both.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 03:48 pm
This is a hard one but after thinking about it from all angles, I think an abortion should be performed and this 10 year old's life restored to normal ASAP.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  6  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 05:02 pm
All the other issues put to the side for a moment.

Why an abortion?

Let's just say the 10 year old, or the girls mother, have no interest in keeping the child/aren't fit to keep the child.

This is a 31 week fetus. As I type this, it is getting nearer and nearer every second to being a 32 week fetus. Every day the chances of survival increase.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I hear 95% survival rate, that's a baby.

How is the physical trauma of the girl different by having an abortion, or a C-section?
How is her mental trauma different?

In an abortion, I'm sure they would make her unconscious, and the baby will be removed through her vagina limb by limb, piece by piece.

I would presume any doctor would order a C-Section, considering the age and size of your typical 10 year old.

Again, she would be made unconscious, C-Section performed, and a living child, who would be joyfully adopted, would be in this world.

How would it be more traumatic in the future when this girl understands a baby was taken out of her, piece by piece, than when she understands the baby was removed alive from her womb and adopted by someone who really wanted a baby, and are taking good care of him or her?

I'm not understanding where having a C-section would cause this child not to get back to a normal life (as if she could) as quickly as a late term abortion.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 05:35 pm
In my opinion, I think the child should be spared giving birth and the pregnancy terminated. If they can do a c-section and save the baby that would be great but I also don't believe that this 10 year old child should be faced with the concept of motherhood in any way, shape or form.

Perhaps one of you who feel that she should have the baby might consider adopting it?
chai2
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 05:52 pm
@eoe,
eoe wrote:

In my opinion, I think the child should be spared giving birth and the pregnancy terminated. If they can do a c-section and save the baby that would be great but I also don't believe that this 10 year old child should be faced with the concept of motherhood in any way, shape or form.

Perhaps one of you who feel that she should have the baby might consider adopting it?


How is an abortion of a near term fetus not physically and mentally traumatic?
Either way, the girl will be unconscious.

One way she learns she gave life, the other way, that she ended one before it even had a chance to begin.

She shouldn't be faced with the concept of motherhood, but it's acceptable for her to be faced with the concept of an ugly ugly procedure that results in death?

I don't want children, and I would be a bad mother.
There are countless people out there who want a newborn. People spend thousands of dollars to get pregnant, because the wait for a baby is so long.

She doesn't have to have the baby around, and the chances are excellent the baby will have people waiting in line to adopt an infant.

Sounds like a win/win/win for the girl who has to go through pain one way or the other, someone who gets a child, and the child.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 07:40 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I would go with the abortion . . . i doubt that it is reasonable to assume that the child can make a rational decision in the matter, and i suspect the child's mother knew her "fiance" as a piece of s**t . . .

Go with abortion; for the father... Is there something about killing the victim that makes you feel innocent???

Maybe we could kill them all and let God sort them out...
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 07:52 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
Should the girl be allowed a threaputic abortion even though she is so far along in her pregnancy?
allowed by whom?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 08:02 pm
@dyslexia,
Allowed by the government, I suppose.

Abortion this late in gestation is illegal.

"Thereaputic" is the legal term they use when they need/want/have to allow it.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 08:05 pm
Given the last name of the father, I'm going to assume the mother and the girl are Hispanic and most probably devout Catholics. Adding what they believe to be a mortal sin (abortion) to her emotional burdens does the girl no good whatsoever.

I'm not sure a 10 year old is able physically to go through a vaginal birth. She'll probably end up with a c-section. It should be performed as soon as tests determine that fetal lung development is at a level that can support life - it's probably already at that level.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Oct, 2010 09:28 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Given the last name of the father, I'm going to assume the mother and the girl are Hispanic and most probably devout Catholics. Adding what they believe to be a mortal sin (abortion) to her emotional burdens does the girl no good whatsoever.

I'm not sure a 10 year old is able physically to go through a vaginal birth. She'll probably end up with a c-section. It should be performed as soon as tests determine that fetal lung development is at a level that can support life - it's probably already at that level.

I would not in the least count on them being Catholic... The Catholics have in many Latin countries preached justice as a right, so called liberation theology... The evangelicals have succeeded them because they say no such thing, that their suffering, the suffering of human beings will be rewarded and justified in heaven, and in some perverse fashion this appeals to those who have held sacrifice for community as the highest virtue...
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2010 05:30 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

Setanta wrote:

I would go with the abortion . . . i doubt that it is reasonable to assume that the child can make a rational decision in the matter, and i suspect the child's mother knew her "fiance" as a piece of s**t . . .


Is there something about killing the victim that makes you feel innocent???



Good point.
There is more than 1 victim here.

There's the 10 year old girl, and the 31 week (coming up to 32 week now - one day closer than when this thread started yesterday. Will the fetus be at 33 weeks by the time this is settled IRL?) fetus.


 

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