Noah,
Do not post that insult (the one that was twice deleted) again.
Okay Craven, I promise to be somewhat good from now on. Personally, I stick by my original post early on, that AA, like unions, are no longer necessary, although they once were. Politics have poisoned both, and I think it's time, like Setanta said, to think of new solutions. Pump more money into education and training programs, clean up ghettos, all good ideas. However, I highly doubt that any of this, should it be done, will clear up the problems of human nature.
Looks like the moderators are becoming totalitarian...but its likely just lil ole ME that irks them
Not "becoming". Insults such as yours were never tolerated.
Provide a working definition of insult…or is it a subjective criterion?
Cav, i think that your final comment goes back to what you wrote in the other thread. Group bigotry is a given in human history; the problems of racism, favoritism, croneyism and exclusion are eternal. The challenge is to find equitable means of defeating that aspect of human nature. Tall order, that is.
Explain how it could possibly not be subjective to some degree and I'll answer you.
It is an insult to my intelligence to allow the type of unscholarly and reasoned responses of detractors permeate and digress what is supposed to be a DEBATE FORUM. Yet, you are not arresting anyone for insulting ME..are YOU? It is therefore about INSULT, rather, it is about POWER.
You mistakenly assume that your posts are scholarly.
Yeah, Setanta, it does go back to that thread. Pity more don't listen.
It does not matter if others agree on the scholar. What matters is that I think that it is and I have been insulted by the unscholarly responses. Scholarly is subjective just as Insult is. Thus, you enforce subjective insult standards, but do not enforce subjective scholar standards.
Screw affirmative whatever.
Post some naked pictures of yourself.
The system is flawed, Setanta. There is too much emphasis on the getting of jobs and not enough on the getting of education, which mostly has to do with the fact that the only education worth getting costs an ungodly amount for everyone concerned. Which is why it's silly to only direct AA at minorities. There are plenty of poor whites who are just as economically challenged, and plenty of "rednecks" that are just as stereotyped, and getting just as much of a short stick.
Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree Ha Ha He He….your wrong, I disagree, ha ha he he…your wrong I disagree….
I hope you all do not vote based upon such spurious emotionally based analysis. Look at what I present VS what you present? Yet, you try to discredit me…NOW THAT’S FUNNY. Ha ha he he you disagree…I know I know already!
I'm not sure why you address me in particular, Rufio, but if you are referring to affirmative action, i agree completely that it is flawed. As i noted, i believe this is so because it will be human nature to simply indulge in tokenism to demonstrate that one has "gotten with the program." I specifically did not mention race or ethnicity in what i wrote, because the benefits of education and job training, the protections of equal employment opportunity regulation, and an end to "red-lining" abuses by lending institutions and insurance companies would benefit anyone whose opportunities in life would otherwise be stunted by the circumstance of where they live.
Noah The African wrote:It does not matter if others agree on the scholar. What matters is that I think that it is and I have been insulted by the unscholarly responses. Scholarly is subjective just as Insult is. Thus, you enforce subjective insult standards, but do not enforce subjective scholar standards.
That is absolutely correct. We do not enforce scholarly standards. But like I said, that would work against you as well.
I think that AA is flawed because it is a generalized approach that attempts to solve specific problems. It is tantamount to a generalized attempt by doctors to cure or treat specific illnesses. Say one person was sick due to a virus and another was sick due to a bacterial infection, yet, the doctor prescribed the same medicine for both, regardless of the specifics origin. The treatment might alleviate the symptoms of one or the other, while curing neither. This is also why there are general practitioners and specialist in medicine, as general practitioners usually cannot solve specific medical challenges to the degree of a specialist that specializes in a specific body part or ailment. Yet, we try to heal social and economic problems via generalize solutions and approaches that integrates and lumps people together simply do to monetary deprivation.
The reason for black poverty and social problems in America are not the same as the origin of the problems of poor Hispanics or Whites. People superficially assume that monetary deprivation of poverty warrants the same generalized solution for all poor. In regards to black people, black social and economic problems in America have a wealth (lack of), physical and psychological component, born from years of oppression here in America. Poor whites are not poor for the same reason that black people are poor. Black poverty was the state of black America at the End of slavery and systematic Laws of separation called Jim Crow. Blacks also suffer a mental damage from years of mistreatment that was based upon their race. Poor whites are still white and are not mentally unbalanced in self-perception due to their whiteness. Much of Hispanic poverty is the result of recent immigration and language shortcomings.
Thus, each group that are in a bad economic reality needs to have the SPECIFIC cause and root of their problems treated, which Affirmative Action fails to do. However, people would object to the more specific treatment of social ills, more than they would object to the generalized Affirmative Action, which simply makes most non whites eligible for the program.
You have some huge assumptions there that are not in any way substantiated.
Substantiate the following:
- That blacks suffer some form of mental "damage". << one of the most idiotic things you have said.
- That Hispanic poverty is sourced in language and immigration
- That the difference means that blacks should be treated differently.
Less emotion and feeling please. More factual substantiation please.
Setanta wrote:Cav, i think that your final comment goes back to what you wrote in the other thread. Group bigotry is a given in human history; the problems of racism, favoritism, croneyism and exclusion are eternal. The challenge is to find equitable means of defeating that aspect of human nature. Tall order, that is.
And we probably never will - I would have thought that attempting to refine and improve our attempts to do so was better than abandoning them, though.
I cannot speak about affirmative action in your country - it seems to raise great ire - perhaps it is poorly done in the US? - but, as a principle, I strongly support it for disadvantaged groups. Eg - I strongly support extra money for resources going to schools in our most economically and educationally disadvantaged areas (I work in one of those areas). I strongly support special cadetships into the workforce for Aboriginal youth - and special traineeships into crucial areas like health for Aboriginal people. (These serve a double purpose - they assist good people to find employment, and their very presence in the workforce increases use of such services by Aboriginal people, whose health status, as a group, is appalling, and who will often not use health services.)
I am stunned by talk of unions being obsolete - and would happily argue it - but that would be a diversion on this thread.
