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What Does it Take to Justify Violence?

 
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 06:43 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
What Does it Take to Justify Violence?


A better lawyer than the victim has..
I may have mentioned the defense attorney who once got a man off for murder after introducing evident that the victim had once kicked a dog... People love for their dogs far exceeds their love of humanity... We can all relate to our dogs... Who but a dog could relate to humanity???
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 07:47 am
@Fido,
I think the other lawyer would have had to be a hedgehog or something to let that pass...
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 08:26 am
@Cyracuz,
Or a jury of hedgehogs?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 08:47 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Or a jury of hedgehogs?
It is hard to not think of a black horse...
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 11:22 am
@JLNobody,
or maybe a judge hedgehog...
0 Replies
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 02:09 pm
@failures art,
There does not appear to be objective moral values, and if there is, it may be immaterial, therefore requires a moral law giver.

My personal opinion of violence:
If you are violent, you must be open to the concept of being subjected to violence.
Example:
If you attempt to kill, you must acknowledge the attempt for survival, perhaps being violence.

However, if you do have moral laws, such as 'no killing', it is morally self refuting to infact kill the killer.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 11:08 pm
@Anomie,
Anomie wrote:
However, if you do have moral laws, such as 'no killing',
it is morally self refuting to in fact kill the killer.
Then u need better moral laws.





David
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 09:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Anomie wrote:
However, if you do have moral laws, such as 'no killing',
it is morally self refuting to in fact kill the killer.
Then u need better moral laws.





David
Morals never stopped anyone from killing killers, or killing their enemies; but when morals are turned into laws it is because people are forced to live as nationa states, or civilizations.... What no one realizes is that people are fluid, and the more morals are carved in stone, the more people simply get around them... Laws are no substitute for morals, and we are living in a demoralized society, and have been, and so, no one aware only of this time and this society can ever get a grasp of morals, morality, and their meaning with the result that laws are written by the immoral in the expectation that the moral will obey them, and the whole society in time learns a universal contempt for law and law makers... Our government is made up of millionaires working for billionaires... They have absolutely nothing in common with this people... Even the democrats who seem more moral only want the feast to continue at our expense for a while longer, while the republicans want to take of their bibs and bare their weapons and show the people they are the boss and we are but slaves... Which is absolutely correct, since only the moral can be free, and slaves are always immoral...
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 08:53 am
To justify something you have to prove, to yourself at least, that the positive quality of the action outweighs the negative quality of that action. because the action would have completely unknown long term effects (butterfly affect) then its completely impossible to completely justify anything.
jcboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 09:02 am
@failures art,
Quote:
What would it take for you to get into a fight?


Okay, true story. When I was 14 years old there was this bully in school. He picked on everyone. Well one day we were all standing in line and he was behind me, pushing and shoving, I finally lost it and turned around and punched him in the jaw. I didn’t hit him hard but I hit the right spot and broke his jaw. Blood everywhere. My parents had to pay for it.

He never bullied anyone again after that.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 12:10 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

To justify something you have to prove, to yourself at least, that the positive quality of the action outweighs the negative quality of that action. because the action would have completely unknown long term effects (butterfly affect) then its completely impossible to completely justify anything.
If you want to do something, you can always find reason enough; and there is the problem since people are primarily irrational, and only rational in the pursuit of irrational goals...Do what you want...If you get caught, and it is wrong enough, then no one will buy your excuse for it anyway... Your excuse only has to be good enough for you...
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:58 pm
@Fido,
Exactly.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 06:31 am
@jcboy,

Quote:
What would it take for you to get into a fight?
jcboy wrote:
Okay, true story. When I was 14 years old there was this bully in school. He picked on everyone. Well one day we were all standing in line and he was behind me, pushing and shoving, I finally lost it and turned around and punched him in the jaw. I didn’t hit him hard but I hit the right spot and broke his jaw. Blood everywhere. My parents had to pay for it.

He never bullied anyone again after that.
If that happened in NY,
it is not at all likely that your parents woud have to pay for it.
Did thay have the advice of legal counsel??





David
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 07:47 am
@Fido,
Quote:
people are primarily irrational, and only rational in the pursuit of irrational goals


You are full of these. Little categorical statements that do not really fit anywhere.
By your definition, every time you are being rational, you are actually being irrational. Makes little sense to me.
Or do you exclude yourself from "people"?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 06:36 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
people are primarily irrational, and only rational in the pursuit of irrational goals


You are full of these. Little categorical statements that do not really fit anywhere.
By your definition, every time you are being rational, you are actually being irrational. Makes little sense to me.
Or do you exclude yourself from "people"?
I tend to be a little more rational than most, only because I find my emotions so troubling; but I do not think of my self as more driven or more exclusively rational... Women are often seen as less rational then men, but my wife has been a paragon of reason compared to myself... Like most people, I have spent a greater part of my life trying to escape my fear, avoid my terrrors, awaken from nightmares of my own making, survive ennui or depression, and craving danger and excitment... I have spent significant amounts of time seeking love and carnal pleasures for little of love and regretable joy... Within a few relative moments of calm between the waves in the hurricane of turmoil and testosterone that has been my life I have read, and inquired as to the meaning of it all, and what this tick tocking time bomb called life could be about...

What I have said has been said in better fashion by Freud or Nietzsche or Baudelaire, and to much better effect... All I can say is: Is it not obvious that human unhappiness is of our own making while everyone pursues only happiness??? If the goal before all of us eludes almost all of us, and those who do reach that goal reach it only by luck or temperment; isn't it fair to assume that we are not seeking the goal we most desire in the rational way that would put it within our grasp???
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 08:42 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Is it not obvious that human unhappiness is of our own making while everyone pursues only happiness?


But does everyone pursue only happiness?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 11:01 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Is it not obvious that human unhappiness is of our own making while everyone pursues only happiness?


But does everyone pursue only happiness?
Whether it be their own pleasure, or the pain of others everyone seeks happiness which they altogether put beyond their own reach when they think to enjoy it themselves they must deny it to others...

If they were rational, the sum of humanity would pursue a course that would achieve happiness, or at least the basic conditions of happiness for all at once; but we are too motivated by hatred than love, more irrational than rational, too busy making losers so we can better enjoy the win to make winning a possibility for all... It is difficult to win while making all others losers, and quite easy to win while making all others winners as well; so instead of doing what is possible and easy, we rely on intelligence and rationality to make what is impossible and irrational seem possible... The little voice of reason will demand a hearing, but no one ever talks seriously of an age of reason because no one can be made to listen to it...The philosophy that spelled an end to kings and gave birth to democracies was soon buried by classes acting purely out of self interest, who believed no more in human equality than in the man in the moon, and they constructed social systems that were doomed to war and revolution and depression and misery because they sought to caste inequality into the form of government... They did not do so guided by reason, but were guided by anything but reason, and only presented the posterior of reason for the ignoble classes to kiss...
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 11:13 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
Or do you exclude yourself from "people"?


who in their right mind would include themselves
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 11:23 am
@failures art,
Quote:
What would it take for you to get into a fight?


Money in the right quantities would do for starters...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prizefight_Boxing
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 11:32 am
@jcboy,
Quote:
...He never bullied anyone again after that. ...


Another true story...

Friend of mine was a professional grade punter, about 6-5 and easily able to kick footballs over the top of large oak trees and/or 70 yards downrange, and was playing in the Ohio State highschool football championship game. He'd been leveled twice by the other team's defensive right end after the ball was away and told a ref that if he didn't start calling that he was going to fix the problem himself, same thing happened a third time and again no call.

The fourth time, my buddy brought weight onto his left foot as per his normal kicking motion, turned full into the charging DE, pulled the ball behind his back and the same thing which was supposed to happen to the football happened to the DE's nads, and I mean it was like three weeks before they knew if this clown was going to live or not, and the only penalty involved was fifteen yards for unnecessary roughness and loss of down and the ball.



0 Replies
 
 

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