OMG. I'm starting to believe hawkeye

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Hmm... In my view, students go to school in order to learn how to learn. They don't really leave school educated; they leave school educable.

THAT is why I said this...

Of course not everything you learn is relating to getting a job, so don't make out that I'm saying that.

But, even learning how to learn is preparing you for when you are out in the world, and need to learn to do something new in your job.
Fact of life is, we spend 8 to 12 hours of our day doing something that earns us money so we have a place to live, and can raise our own families.

A big part of preparing for that is going to school.

They're students, they're the future workforce, they're PEOPLE.
We are all, or have been, all of the above.

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@hawkeye10,

I truly am beginning to agree with you when it comes to education. The more I read about it the spookier it is.

Down with the collective!

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I guess we'll have to ask dys what he meant. I thought his comment was more of a resigned sigh indicating that it's too bad that children are viewed as commodities.

I'm making to big a deal out of this?

My newspaper, the largest one in the state, had this on the front page, above the fold so I'm guessing it's a pretty big dea.

I quoted a newspaper headline and shouted "down with the collective".

Yeah, I've never seen a newspaper make a big deal out of nothing, and put it on the front page.

What I am saying is I can't believe you made a big deal out of this by being unhappy with the word "prepare", but would have been ok with the word "educate"

I'm okay with the idea that education prepares a person for "something" regardless of what it is, and that preparing for something is education.

We're all commodities in some way. Big deal.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

We're all commodities in some way. Big deal.

We are not putty to be molded by whom ever happens to get the upper hand in this collective. Education was always supposed to be about allowing the individual to bloom, it was never supposed to be about squashing what ever wants to be and instead making what those in power want to be.

I am not a commodity, and I do not proxy sovereignty over myself to those in power so that they can mold me into a useful cog for the economy. I am also not a recruit for the army to save Earth or to end Violence or to end "negative" emotions, so turning schools onto a boot camp for this project was always a subversion of the education system for nefarious projects.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

Isn't educating a person in something preparing them to use what they learned, later on in life?

I think this is where we part company. Some people learn for the simple love of learning -- it isn't goal driven preparation for anything.

I have a friend who is a banker. She has a degree in poetry. Studying poetry did not prepare her for banking.

Just because she doesn't use poetry is her education invalid?

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@boomerang,

The primary function of education hasn't changed since, at least, the Greeks. The purpose is to prepare children to be productive citizens.

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@dyslexia,

I completely agree.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

Quote:

The purpose is to prepare children to be productive citizens.

through enlightening free will, though trying to induce free will into an appetite for the finer pursuits of humanity over the more base, not as we do now by trying to stomp on free will and replacing it with group think arrived at behaviour and individual beliefs.

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@boomerang,

I would add that the definition of "productive citizen" changed significantly beginning with the end of WW II, but that's a totally different discussion.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Quote:
Isn't educating a person in something preparing them to use what they learned, later on in life?

I think this is where we part company. Some people learn for the simple love of learning -- it isn't goal driven preparation for anything.

I have a friend who is a banker. She has a degree in poetry. Studying poetry did not prepare her for banking.

Just because she doesn't use poetry is her education invalid?

Oh good heavens boomer, didn't we all go over this in different thread just yesterday?

Of course people learn for the love of learning, we all do it to some degree. Some more, some less.

Your friends degree in poetry prepared her to understand and write poems.

Somewhere along the line she was educated (read prepared) to take up the business and work of banking.

You know, there's a big wide gray area between black, and white.

If one of the goals of education is to be productive members of society, that means we are all going to Produce something.
Producers, workforce, student, child, adult, poet....we all hold all these titles in our lives.
I'm a woman, wife, worker, enthusiast of various things.

Don't get hung up on one word. Especially when the person writing those words could have very well chose them well to incite you.

We are children for a very few years. We are adults for decades and decades.
Not saying children should be made to be miniature adults, but hell, it's a good thing, IMO to let them see what the glorious adult world is.

My adulthood has been so much more satisfying than my childhood.
Even if I had a great childhood, my adulthood would still be more satisfying.

Ok, this is off topic I know boomer, and I truly don't mean to insult you. This is just an observation from your recent threads.

You are becoming more and more of a helicopter mom.

Now it's gotten beyond where you have to see if you can make every moment of Mo's life as great as it can be, but now you're getting upset over things that many people may think is proper, or a good challenge.

Really, truly honestly I don't mean to rank on you, but for goodness sake, chill out already.

No one grows up perfect, and most of us, including Mo, have/will grow up pretty much ok.

Pretty much ok is really good.

1 Reply

@chai2,

There is no rule that says you have to respond to my threads.

And, I don't mean to insult you, but you're full of ****.

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@chai2,

I've not been for using universities as a career tool, and still am not, however they make their money, including football.

past that

I am for many ways of learning and living life.

Yack, I seem I'm late to the gate.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Quote:

I've not been for using universities as a career tool, and still am not

That's an interesting way to put it, osso.

I remember reading something a few years back about how employers weren't really looking for the Type-A, driven, straight A students but for people with a more well rounded knowledge.

I'm wondering if high schools still offer courses called "humanities".

1 Reply

@boomerang,

Quote:

I've not been for using universities as a career tool,
and still am not

boomerang wrote:

That's an interesting way to put it, osso.

I remember reading something a few years back about how employers weren't really looking for
the Type-A, driven, straight A students but for people with a more well rounded knowledge.

I'm wondering if high schools still offer courses called "humanities".

I doubt that I 'd have been admitted to a law school
without an undergraduate degree.

David

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Down with the collective!

The problem with this nonsense is that you're fine with the collective when you want police protection, and firemen, and jet airliners, and automobiles, and reliable food souces--Hawkeye uses "the collective" as an equal opportunity way to flog a fantasy grievance. It's disingenuous at it's most innocent, and cyincal, elitist propaganda at the worst.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Hawkeye uses "the collective" as an equal opportunity way to flog a fantasy grievance. It's disingenuous at it's most innocent, and cyincal, elitist propaganda at the worst

I use the collective as a label for the beliefs and efforts of the group, which I insist should be a collection of fully formed individuals who CHOOSE to work together as opposed to mindless simpletons who are forced by law and group think to do what the bosses demand as is the current Amercian ideal. In my scheme there is always tension between the individual and the collective, and when the collective is working well their will be a balance between the working for the needs of the collective and the needs of the individual. I think that I harken back to the founding spirit of America, which was largely responsible for the success of America, but which we have mostly lost.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I think that I harken back to the founding spirit of America, which was largely responsible for the success of America, but which we have mostly lost.

You really crack me up. You are always eager to portray yourself in the heroic mold. I got a new flash for ya, Bubba--you don't get to make up your own particular definitions for words. And you do use the term collective in a contemptuous manner to flog those whose ideas you despise.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I think that I harken back to the founding spirit of America,
which was largely responsible for the success of America,
but which we have mostly lost.

So far as I am consciously aware, I embody the values of the Founders; Original Americanism (as amended thru Article 5).
I am an Individualist, laissez faire capitalist, libertarian hedonist.

U have elected to apply the label of "socialist" to yourself.

The historical record reveals that the Founders were NOT socialists.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I am an Individualist, laissez faire capitalist, libertarian hedonist

I think you are deluded. The Americans that I hear where respected were the ones who would drop everything for a day and join the rest of the community in putting up a barn for a local family, or who would join the local co-op/grange. The way I hear it your kind would be an outcast, you would be despised.

Back in the day the expectation was that the individual took care of their business with honor AND ALSO joined in the community projects when the call came.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

David wrote:

I am an Individualist, laissez faire capitalist, libertarian hedonist

hawkeye10 wrote:

I think you are deluded. The Americans that I hear where respected

I suppose the Beatles and Frank Sinatra were "respected"; fads.
I was referring to the political foundations of the REpublic.
The American Revolution was an anti-authoritarian revolution.
It was led by the Sons of Liberty.

hawkeye10 wrote:

were the ones who would drop everything for a day
and join the rest of the community in putting up a barn for a local family,
or who would join the local co-op/grange.
The way I hear it your kind would be an outcast, you would be despised.

ASK me if I care.
IF there was an extant, voluntary agreement of mutual assistance,
there is nothing rong with that.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Back in the day the expectation was that the individual took care of their business with honor
AND ALSO joined in the community projects when the call came.

In Old Colonial America, sometimes this was literally a matter of life n death,
e.g. participation in the well-regulated militia, the body of the people
able to bear arms, who fought for their lives in battle against Indian raids, or the French, etc.
When an emergency arose, thay all ran to attend to it.

David

1 Reply

OMG. I'm starting to believe hawkeye

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