A life worth living?

No, the good life is the rewarding life, which only in part is virtuous. As humans we are in part shits, not only is it not possible for us to be always virtuous but those who put all their effort into trying to be are severely twisted, those who claim to be are in my experience usually some of the worst people around.

Show me a man who has perfected the ****, a man who savours the best spirits, a man who is educated about himself and the world around him thus knows how to bend the world to his will, and I will show you a man who knows the good life. He will however probably not be all that virtuous.

When I wrote virtue in this particular thread I was referring to Aristotelian virtue, either moral or intellectual dependent upon the the track one takes in answering what is a philosopher. An appreciation for sex, spirits, and intro/extra-spection would not fall outside of Aristotelian virtues I wouldn't think.

I do tend to agree with the assessment that life can be squandered if one spends his/her whole life in the attempt to be virtuous in the popular sense.

In Zen we are taught that striving to be virtuous is a 100% guarantee of failing to be virtuous. Show me a man who is striving to be virtuous and I will show you a nube.

to be a genuine good man is a life worth living

with NO religious connotations implied at all

It's an interesting statement for sure. I suppose my input is that if a person did not view themselves as a philosopher (by whatever definition available), I think Aristotle would have a hard time convincing any person that felt their life was worthwhile that they were incorrect.

The statement is true if you seek approval from Aristotle, but he's dead.

A
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there is a kind of happiness which is dependent upon the external world, dependent upon the "the way" one's life is, or the way it is not. its a conditional happiness, based on fulfilment of one's goals and desires. but then there is the possibility of an unconditional happiness, a kind of inner wholeness that is purely of one's own making, regardless of external conditions.

It's the "worth living" thing that's confusing. When is a life not worth living?

We talk about quality of life. In my mind, if the drive to live is there, quality isn't an issue. When the life force recedes, it doesn't matter what the external circumstances are.

In other words, I think life itself is enough.

On the other hand, they say Kierkegaard died with a big smile on his face... like he'd figured something out.

GOOD LIFE LEADS TO VIRTUOUS LIFE.THERE IS A PLATEU EVEN BEHIND VIRTYE FOE WHICH IS ONLY A ROUTE
CHOLARAJA