INFORMATION v LEARNING

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[+3] - farmerman - 09/22/2010I was talking to a friend who gave his first pop quiz in Journalism. He had several students at a University that have Never read a book in their lives and they are juniors in college. Theyve been...
[+3] - farmerman - 09/23/2010My airglider has the fullness of eels inside????? Am I close or do I feel that You must have had the same French teqchers I did.
[+3] - patiodog - 09/23/2010This is a hell of big topic, man. My inclination, quite apart from the zigzagging line of discussion thus far, is that most of my "learning" has come from experience, and especially...
[+3] - farmerman - 09/23/2010school has often interfered with my education, thass a fact!!

@farmerman,

Learning takes multiple pieces of information and tries to make sense out of it.

There has been quite a lot of work done understanding this in the education field. Most introductory education courses spends a good deal of time on Blooms taxonomy.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

I was talking to a friend who gave his first pop quiz in Journalism. He had several students at a University that have Never read a book in their lives and they are juniors in college. Theyve been raised by the "google" gives me the sound byte. method and they are missing the breadth that learning provides and they have sidestepped the discipline required.

Im beginning to think that we are doomed.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Im beginning to think that we are doomed.

Nah . . . we won't live that long. It ain't lookin' good for those who succeed us, though.

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@farmerman,

Consider just the one discipline, English grammar, that was taught by generations of teachers and the information was swallowed by generations of students with little to no regard for learning.

The world and English survived, in spite of the "teaching".

1 Reply

@JTT,

yes but , by definition, you have "learned english grammar". no?

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@farmerman,

I've been doing a lot of reading on just this topic. I agree with the people saying that in the name of "achievement" and "raising the bar" and "higher standards" that we've created a culture of shallow thinking.

You have to pass standardized test to get to college but you don't have to have ever read a book.

Crazy.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

yes but , by definition, you have "learned english grammar". no?

In school, no. In the course of one's life, most definitely.

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@boomerang,

That's another problem with standardized testing, but these are processes dreamed up by the "best" educators of our times with PhD's. And one of our "smartest" president implemented this whole mess. Another unfunded mandate by the feds. Stupid, yes?

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@JTT,

where does it say that learning or education is only accomplished via "school"?

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I was talking to a friend who gave his first pop quiz in Journalism. He had several students at a University that have Never read a book in their lives and they are juniors in college. Theyve been raised by the "google" gives me the sound byte. method and they are missing the breadth that learning provides and they have sidestepped the discipline required.

Im beginning to think that we are doomed.

It's not just the shallowness of the "education" these students have received, farmer. Another problem is they've most likely specialized in their chosen field, way too early. Like in the middle to senior years of high school. To give them the best opportunity to gain entry into their chosen course of study at university.

Personally, I believe that even at university level, students should be exposed to a much broader education, not just their chosen vocational field. We can end up with very lop-sided, narrow people as a result this approach to "education". They might be very competent at their jobs, but surely work is only a part of who they are? Me, I like the idea of a doctor who can communicate with their patients, who is not just a scientist.

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga, I think you are wrong. I believe that a more rounded education outside of one's specialty provides them with more tools to understand how to perform better at their jobs. I have nothing to support this thesis, and it's only my guess.

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@farmerman,

Rule 642 Ss3b.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

msolga, I think you are wrong. I believe that a more rounded education outside of one's specialty provides them with more tools to understand how to perform better at their jobs.

But that's pretty much along the lines of what I was saying, ci. (Say nothing of creating more well rounded people!)
Maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly enough?
I'm going back to check now! Wink

1 Reply

@msolga,

My purpose in bringing this entire subject up is the fact that our schools slowly have turned into an industry that seems to be more interested in distributing "Factoids" rather than fostering learning. The internet seems to foster this trend and Im wondering where its all gonna end up. Will it be like that commercial I saw where these people are suffering from information overload because they keep quoting irrelevant bits of information that they glommed from the net somewhere.

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@farmerman,

My serious response is that i really doubt that this will make that much of a difference. Schools have always been assembly lines to poot out citizens with sufficient literacy to work in a factory, or sign a check to the Republican Party. The majority of high school graduates are not going to become brilliant research scientists or rich entrepreneurs. People who are not drawn into this scenario which you describe are the ones who will make the next great research discoveries of the coming generations, or who will create the next dot-com boom, laughing all the way to the bank with their profits while the bubble bursts.

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I recently heard a teacher describe our current method as "the toothpaste tube system of education": fill it up and squeeze it out. Children are just taught to memorize bits and pieces to repeat back on a test. There is very little thought process involved and makes it difficult for students to ever think outside of the box they are given.

I thought this study was interesting:
Lack of Playtime Hurts Children
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27789613/

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I haven't read this whole article yet, just skimmed. Still, it is in line with what I've been thinking in recent reading about education. (Like, in a recent NYT article that was generally down on education, they talked about how improvements have only been incremental. That surprised me, from the context I thought that education must be getting worse and worse. Incremental progress is still progress.)

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/09/27/100927taco_talk_lemann

Excerpt:

Quote:

But, by the fundamental test of attractiveness to students and their families, the system—which is one of the world’s most ethnically diverse and decentralized—is, as a whole, succeeding. Enrollment in charter schools is growing rapidly, but so is enrollment in old-fashioned public schools, and enrollments are rising at all levels. Those who complete a higher education still do better economically. Measures of how much American students are learning—compared to the past, and compared to students in other countries—are holding steady, for the most part, even as more people are going to school.

So it’s odd that a narrative of crisis, of a systemic failure, in American education is currently so persuasive.

Since I've happened to take the "hey education isn't totally sucky" position more than once lately, let me add that I know there are serious problems. It's part of why I went into education, because I wanted to be a reformer (for deaf ed, specifically). The fact that I couldn't quite hack it (preferred to do something a little less masochistic) also indicates how messed up at least some elements are.

But my own instinctive "waidaminute" has to do with the fact that in my own immediate experience, education is pretty darn good. My daughter is definitely learning and definitely loves learning. Her school has done a lot to foster that.

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@Setanta,

Yeh but there is no dishonor in being truly educated rather than just be able to spit factoids. Whatever happened to art appreciation or music? History doesnt seem toconnect the dots more than its interseted in delivering sermons on someones chosen rectumtude

1 Reply

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