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The twelve-step program

 
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 07:39 am
I'm talking about AA. Could anybody share their thoughts on how it works?
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 07:43 am
http://able2know.org/topic/145152-1
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:01 am
AA is a peer type of treatment for alcoholics in the form of meetings for people to attend. It is NOT therapy, but it can be therapeutic. It is in a meeting format with other people going thru the same thing. One thing binds them: the desire to stop drinking.

There are other "Step' programs for narcotics, over eating, living with addicted people (Alanon) and emotional issues.

People who simply want to not drink go to meetings, sit around with others who are of the like-mind and talk about ways that they stayed sober for the current day. Very simple, but very complicated.

The "steps" are simple statements that can be applied to everyday life. They are "worked" i.e. processed by the individual. There are also slogans that you hear all the time: One Day at a Time, Easy Does It, Live and Let Live.

The 12 steps can be a good life guide for anyone to follow.

As a person whose family is replete with alcoholics, I found the 12 step Alanon program life saving.

The Serenity Prayer says it all for me.

0 Replies
 
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:36 am
@Arjuna,
AA is worse than useless, according to their own study.
All you could want to know, and more: http://www.orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:47 am
@ughaibu,
ughaibu wrote:

AA is worse than useless, according to their own study.
All you could want to know, and more: http://www.orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Love the Herbert Spencer quote. That's a lot of stuff, though... synopsis?

I have a close relative who follows the steps. It wasn't useless for that person.
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:53 am
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:
ughaibu wrote:
AA is worse than useless, according to their own study.
... synopsis?
AA's success rate is no better than non-intervention, and their death rate is worse.
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:54 am
What does "useless" mean, anyway?

What is the recovery rate for ANY addiction treatment program?

Those who want to recover, will. Those who don't, won't.
It's very simple.
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:57 am
@chai2,
thanks!
0 Replies
 
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:57 am
@PUNKEY,
PUNKEY wrote:
What is the recovery rate for ANY addiction treatment program?
Those who want to recover, will. Those who don't, won't.
It's very simple.
By far the most successful treatment is showing the sober alcoholic videos of themselves when drunk.
PUNKEY
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 07:42 pm
yeah, right.
It did wonders for Mel Gibson
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2010 08:31 pm
@PUNKEY,
PUNKEY wrote:
yeah, right.
It did wonders for Mel Gibson
Due to poverty of content, I'm reduced to guessing, but, I'll take it that:
1) this post is addressed to me
2) it's a response to my immediately preceding post
3) Mel Gibson undertook such a course
4) Mel Gibson was and remained, after treatment, an alcoholic.
Apart from appraising me of an entirely uninteresting piece of gossip, what, if anything, is the point that you'd like to make?
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 06:53 am
@ughaibu,
You said:
By far the most successful treatment is showing the sober alcoholic videos of themselves when drunk.

I say that's not true.

Mel Gibson is just one of several persons whose drunken escapades have been broadcast (video and audio) around the world, and still, his behavior did not change. I can site several others, including sports star figures and other famous people, who didn't reach their bottom even after their drunkenness was publically exposed.
ughaibu
 
  4  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2010 07:13 am
@PUNKEY,
PUNKEY wrote:
You said:
By far the most successful treatment is showing the sober alcoholic videos of themselves when drunk.
I say that's not true.
Mel Gibson is just one of several persons whose drunken escapades have been broadcast (video and audio) around the world, and still, his behavior did not change. I can site several others, including sports star figures and other famous people, who didn't reach their bottom even after their drunkenness was publically exposed.
Apparently your argument has the following form :
1) treatment A has a less than 100% success rate
2) therefore treatment A is not the most successful treatment.
This argument relies on a hidden premise:
1b) any treatment with less than a 100% success rate is not the most successful treatment.
Anyone who accepts this premise is committed to the view that there is no most successful treatment for almost any disease, in fact, for any disease for which there is only one treatment and that treatment fails, no matter how rarely, anyone supporting your hidden premise is committed to the claim that there is no treatment. As this is obviously bullshit of the first water, I assume that nobody will accept your hidden premise and be persuaded by your idiotic argument.
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2010 07:21 am
You went from "most successful" to wanting 100%.

NO human health condition treatment that involves mood/mind altering substances can boast 100% "cure".

AA promises nothing. It is simply "talk therapy"
FriendNdeed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 05:19 pm
@Arjuna,
Hello Arjuna. The question of "how" AA works isn't an easy type of question. Carl Jung himself said recovery from alcohol hinges upon a spiritual experience. So, how does a "spiritual experience" work? See? It's a hard question to answer. Those who stay in AA will tell you loudly that it works. Those who left AA will tell you loudly that it doesn't work—for them or anyone else. Neither group is very objective. If you're asking because you want help, why not go to a meeting and find out? -- FriendNdeed
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 07:53 am
I suspect she is inquiring about someone else who is attending AA, either by coice or court-ordered.

Anyone impacted by someone else's drinking ought to consider Alanon. (family and friends of problem drinkers)
0 Replies
 
LetItBe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:30 pm
@ughaibu,
Not so. They are unable to stop without help, and help isn't showing them videos. That is humiliating, a feeling that many will try to numb out with more drinking. It would be far better to say how their drinking has affected you, or express your concern for their well being or loved ones. AA is free, and a great support system as accountability goes.
0 Replies
 
LetItBe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:33 pm
@PUNKEY,
It is not talk therapy, as the public often view such a thing. The meetings don't keep them sober, the steps do. The support of people who know how they feel and have found a different (read: sober) way of living is invaluable to them. The problem with the steps is that you have to believe in God-or at least something you consider to be a higher power that you can pray to. Although there are atheists and agnostics, Buddhists, etc, but they have to be pretty darn creative to make some of those steps work.
LetItBe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:43 pm
@LetItBe,
I'd like to add that steps are really what keep them on the straight and narrow, though normally people relapse when they quit going to meetings. This is usually due to a mixture of lack of support and not keeping spiritually fit.
1-Admitting they have a problem and haven't found any other solutions that worked
4-Making a list of harm done, fears, harms done to them (reconciling the past and resentments)
5-Telling someone be it another person in recovery or a spiritual leader like a priest of what's on the 4th step list
8-Making a list of people they've harmed (lied to, cheated on, stolen from, neglected, abused, etc)
9-Making amends to those people, eventually (more than just saying "I'm sorry."
12- They are supposed to help other alcoholics find sobriety for purpose of getting out of self and giving back what they were freely given

The in-between steps are for those who are into praying to a Higher Power for help, removal of character defects and all that jazz.
Basically, the whole shebang is a way to make peace with ones self, others, and Higher Power (which is annoyingly only referred to as God in the "Big Book" of AA). It is a restoration of self and self esteem.
0 Replies
 
LetItBe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:45 pm
@PUNKEY,
Maybe Mel Gibson didn't bother with the principle of removal of pride and ego :-P AA is for those who want it, not just those who need it.
0 Replies
 
 

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