How to get to Heaven?

I'm really not sure if you are just pulling my leg here -- or if you are serious. I'll take a chance and assume you really are asking this question -- but I'm going to be mightily pissed if I find you are just being a wise-ass.

I am a good, decent, law-abiding (at times) human being and citizen because I have self-respect and a well-established personal ethic. I most assuredly am not those things because of the dictates of some god or another -- and even more assuredly not because I might reap some kind of reward after my death.

I guess there are people who are decent and law-abiding for those reasons -- but I hope I have no friends who are among them, because I don't have much respect for that kind of reasoning.

My personal ethic is the reason I do not "indulging completely in all of [my] desires" -- whatever the hell you think that means. (Frankly, I indulge in damn near all of my desires; but my "desires" are fairly pedestrian.)




I'm not really sure what you mean by that? Don't be cute with your questions. Ask me what you want. I'll answer.




See above. You've lost me.




Wherever possible I try to use the word "It" to denote any God worthy of a capital "G." I know that the superstitious ancient Hebrews who apparently invented the god of the Bible used "HE" -- but they considered women as chattels.

I don't.

In any case, I think using "HE" to denote any God is demeaning -- especially if the God actually has a gender and that gender is female!






Actually, I am looking forward to it, Caprice. I like the way you post -- and I'm happy to be exchanging ideas and opinions with you.

Keep it coming! :wink: :wink:

I suppose it depends on what God you whorship and whos bible you follow, the Islamic faith seem to have some goodies in their heaven, don't like the way you have to go about it, to get them though.

lightfoot

Do you know much about the Islamic faith? I'm not saying I do, but I just wondered if you did. I hope it's more than what the media showcases because in my view they show a skewed view of the world. But that's another can of worms, as I like to say.

I don't think there are different "ways" to get into heaven based on one's particular religion. And my stance in this thread has been, how do any of us know with any degree of certainty? It isn't like you come back afterwards to let everyone know. :wink: All one can rely on is their faith.

Frank Apisa

As you now know, yes I'm being serious.



I wouldn't say that my ethics/morals/etc. are from the dictates of a higher power either. At least not in the sense of being a response to a belief. Do you know what I mean? (e.g. As others might believe, God says we must be good to get into heaven, therefore we are. It isn't that sort of thing. ) For myself, my ethics/morals/etc. feel innate. They aren't beliefs necessarily instilled in me by my parents because I find we differ on certain issues. So where do they come from? This is one question I have asked myself.

Regarding the law comment I made, let me clarify. Let's just say that you or I or anyone is shopping and doesn't have enough money for a particular item. Now for some, the thought of being jailed for stealing is enough to stop that particular person from stealing. But for others it's more than just the law. So, aside from the law in this or any other matter, what would prevent you from taking the attitude that you count first and foremost before anyone else, so what stops you from indulging in yourself at the expense of others? (Is that any clearer?)

Regarding God's gender...well...I've always heard God referred to as the father...being the female persuasion myself, I don't view it as demeaning. Then there is the bit in the Bible of God making man in His image. Perhaps too there is a gender assignment because God and heaven are beyond our comprehension and these images are ones to enable some sort of understanding.



Indulging completely in your desires means....well let me put it another way. Several years back I came to a spiritual crossroads. I began to question anything and everything. I thought "if we just all end up as dust in the end, why should anything I do matter? Why should I worry about hurting the feelings of someone else if it means getting something I want? Why should I care about future generations? Why shouldn't I just indulge myself in anything that feels good?" And so on. When I really started to examine the reasons why, I realized that even if there wasn't an afterlife, even if I turned to dust, I had to live my life the way it felt right to live it. The phrase "To thine own self be true" from Shakespeare's Hamlet came to my mind. I realized I had to be true to myself, to my "inner voice" and if I did, then I would always feel good about the life I was living. (I'm not saying I have been able to follow this all the time...just that I aspire to do so.) Just discovering this really helped in my spiritual struggles because the unsettled feeling I'd had for so long was suddenly gone. It gave me a bit of peace. Then the next question was, where did my "true self", my "inner voice", my "deep down inside" come from? And that's why I asked you what made you a decent law-abiding human being. Do you believe you are a product of your upbringing? Your environment? Your experiences? Do you believe that is all it has taken to give you the sense of ethics and morals you possess?

I've sort of gone off on a tangent discussing my own situation, but I did so in order for you to (hopefully) see where my questions were coming from.

Thanks for the compliments. I look forward to future exchanges as well.

I know. This was directed at Frank...but I can't resist...

George Carlin said:
"The longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize that something is definitely wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the ice capades.
Between you and me, in any decently-run universe this guy would have been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago.
And I say this guy because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man. No woman could or would ever screw things up this badly. "

Anyone agree?

*LOL* That's funny! I like the "ice capades" bit and the "no woman could or would ever screw things up this badly" part.

Would I agree with his sentiment? No, because I don't believe it's that simple.