Equal gain

Potentially or actually?

Actually.

I see what you are implying, but what is the counter example?

Does all human life possess equal potential for pleasure?

Possibly, in an inherent manner.

Actually, a starving child in Rwanda is not equal to, say you or I, with respect to pleasure or lack thereof.

While we may, theoretically, be born equally, circumstances begin at birth.

I agree.

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but it's wrong. The majority on the planet do not have enough to eat; pleasure (or most anything else I can think of) is difficult to experience when one is hungry.

Well, not only are we humans born in disparate circumstances...But even if we were born with a blank slate: how would you quantify "pleasure" from a non-subjective/non-local viewpoint? Is there a meaningful, universal pleasure index?



While i sympathize with your moral implications here, i still have to disagree. Even starving people can feel pleasure, poverty is not a barrier to happiness. And, of course, there are plenty of starving drug addicts and alcoholics that could confirm that physical pleasure is available without food-money. I'm not trying to dispute the economic message you are sending, but the facts are more complicated.

Can pleasure or the lack of it be demonstrated as equal between just two human lives?

Well, not only are we humans born in disparate circumstances...But even if we were born with a blank slate: how would you quantify "pleasure" from a non-subjective/non-local viewpoint? Is there a meaningful, universal pleasure index?


No (thought about what to say for a while and that seemed to be the simplest and most direct, minus this part).

What if we make a simple game like pacman, except every man-packer can eat every other one, or say we could change any thing we wanted to. Equality seems plausible in some ways.

If you have a pool with several people in it, can you control their movements by changing the water?

If we can show that the net effect from a disturbance for any "conscious" system has a certain quantifiable "identity", then maybe we can show equality for all elements in the system.

Yes. I would have them get out of the pool while I changed the water.

Is this in relation to your prior post? I am not sure that I follow. But do not take this as a disparaging reply. Can you explain your terms further?

Of course! Whereas pleasure translates to different emotions with most everyone, regardless of their socioeconomic and cultural background.
For instance: that kid in Rwanda can experience enormous pleasure by eating a decent meal. Gratifying sex can be equally pleasurable for all involved, or - if it's less ideal - just for one. Playing music can be equally pleasurable for the musician and the listener.

Everyone experiences pleasure in equal form, i.e. experiencing something
enjoyable, having a positive emotion and sensation, what is different however,
is the individual source of pleasure and enjoyment.

I did not, and yes it is in relation.

For example, if we knew enough about the water (ie. chemical comp., temperature variance, wave peak/min frequency and p/m amplitude ect...) and if we could at will manipulate those "variables, " then, if done in the correct way, we could move the people around in the pool itself. We could change parts of the water to be cold were the people are, but inject streams, bubbles or pockets of warm water to attract them to different locations. More simply, somewhat like you stated, we could drain the pool they would all probably on average get out of the pool cavity faster than with the water (so we still would have accomplished the objective of getting them out faster).

This may be too big of a leap (logical, not explanatory), but assuming this leads to everything being manipulatively determinable, at least socially (not on an absolute physical level). Therefore, it seems that there should be equivalence, since we assume the (predictable, calculable...)adaptation to outside influence.

As long is their brains are functional, they have everything necessary to find pleasure regardless of circumstances. The mind will work out something to find pleasure as it will get the "pleasure feeling/chemicals" only through different paths.

Poor child finding fresh water.
Some guy's football team wins.