5
   

HOMELESS VETERANS

 
 
William
 
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 08:33 am
Would anyone please tell my why those two words could possibly exist together? Any one who either voluntarily joins or is forced should, if they survive, NEVER be homeless. It’s that very home they were fighting for. If ANYONE can provide me with an answer, please tell me why a veteran should ever NOT have a home they can call theirs ESPECIALLY those who live in that home they were fighting and dying for. Home of the free; land of the brave? It that just bullsh*t!

If anyone of you “experts” can provide an answer then find someone who can. I don’t care how high you have to go, get on O’bama on the line if you can; lets see if he knows.

The question should not have to be asked and there are a lot of homeless veterans out there who will not take charity as they have learned to scrounge for themselves and many call them mentally ill. What........a........crock!!!!

It doesn’t take much to make a home, anything is better than living on the streets.

So able2know is anyone so able that can answer that question? Why should ANY veteran EVER be homeless????????

William
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 2,421 • Replies: 37
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Pronounce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 02:29 pm
@William,
If you know of a homeless veteran, and are truly concerned for their welfare, then the onus is on you to fix the problem. My suggestion is to work with no more individuals than you can comfortably manage with your time and resources. Once you've done this, then you'll be able to honestly ask this question. In my opinion too many people want someone else to fix a problem they see and should be doing something about.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 02:41 pm
@Pronounce,
Pronounce, You have it partially right; however, our government has promised to take care of our veterans, and failed.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 02:52 pm
I'm not excusing the government's abysmal record in providing safe housing for the homeless, but what I have learned to be true over the years, is that some people PREFER to sleep 'rough' or outside.

I have a friend from the US who I went to college with. He's a very bright guy - he served in Desert Storm and then he came back and was a TEFL teacher in Korea. He ended up losing that job because he had diabetes and bi-polar disease. He's back in the US and for a while he was working as a 'carer' for a disabled woman - so he had a place to live (in her accommodations).

He couldn't stand it. When we caught up with each other again in June, he was living in his Toyota Corolla, back in the city where we went to college. He's 6'2 and 230 pounds. The problem was his circulation in his lower legs was getting worse and worse because of his diabetes and he was spending eight hours a night sleeping with them bent. He didn't have any credit on his phone so I called the college and the shelters to see if anyone had a bed. There was a bed available in the shelter and I thought for sure he'd want to stay there, but when I called him and told him where to go and what time to be there by - he said, 'No way! I'd rather sleep in my car- I get claustrophobic inside.'

Sometimes it's a choice.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 04:15 pm
@aidan,
aiden, There are always "exception to the general rule" about most human problems.
mark noble
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 06:41 pm
@William,
Hi William!

What is more special about an ex-soldier than any other person?
I don't think anyone should be homeless - Unless they choose to be.

I have friends in the forces, my father is retired sas, and none of these believe they are entitled to a bigger or better slice of the proverbial pie.

My father never did any of the things he did for king and country - He did it for the thrill and adventure (the buzz), and my younger friends (newish to the forces) don't do it out of patriotism either.

They get paid for they're jobs like everyone else - They don't do it for free.

Anyway, have a glorious day!
Mark...
William
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 04:05 am
@Pronounce,
Pronounce wrote:

If you know of a homeless veteran, and are truly concerned for their welfare, then the onus is on you to fix the problem.


Hello pronounce; can’t take the heat, huh! Ha, not derisive but understood. Most politicians can’t take it. Yes, it is sad so many make such an acclamation. If those who passed the buck to those who truly needed it, their would be no such word as homeless. HST had no idea of the influence that propelled him to make the decision, it is said, that he made. Yeah, it’s all about that, huh!? Just how those bucks are passed. Reasons? Some are ridiculous, but they do make “cents” and little sense. Oink, Oink.

Pronounce wrote:
My suggestion is to work with no more individuals than you can comfortably manage with your time and resources. Once you've done this, then you'll be able to honestly ask this question. In my opinion too many people want someone else to fix a problem they see and should be doing something about.


I can take the heat but such questions get lost in the maze long before anyone who has the means to act can act. A good bill would do that; huh! Fancy that! The word is out. I’m just beginning, one might say. Something will be done about those “bucks” AND their destinations.

William, a good Bill, Mr. Bill or just plain Billy.



0 Replies
 
William
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 04:20 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Hi William!

What is more special about an ex-soldier than any other person?
I don't think anyone should be homeless - Unless they choose to be.

I have friends in the forces, my father is retired sas, and none of these believe they are entitled to a bigger or better slice of the proverbial pie.


Ex-soldier? You mean a "has been"? Choose to be? Yes, they don't like charity or pity! Bigger or better? Damn! Those are your words; to assume any would want that is BULLSH*T. Sorry! No!!!! I meant it. Sometimes that word is very appropriate; like now.

William



0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 04:46 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

I'm not excusing the government's abysmal record in providing safe housing for the homeless, but what I have learned to be true over the years, is that some people PREFER to sleep 'rough' or outside.

I have a friend from the US who I went to college with. He's a very bright guy - he served in Desert Storm and then he came back and was a TEFL teacher in Korea. He ended up losing that job because he had diabetes and bi-polar disease. He's back in the US and for a while he was working as a 'carer' for a disabled woman - so he had a place to live (in her accommodations).

He couldn't stand it. When we caught up with each other again in June, he was living in his Toyota Corolla, back in the city where we went to college. He's 6'2 and 230 pounds. The problem was his circulation in his lower legs was getting worse and worse because of his diabetes and he was spending eight hours a night sleeping with them bent. He didn't have any credit on his phone so I called the college and the shelters to see if anyone had a bed. There was a bed available in the shelter and I thought for sure he'd want to stay there, but when I called him and told him where to go and what time to be there by - he said, 'No way! I'd rather sleep in my car- I get claustrophobic inside.'

Sometimes it's a choice.


Aidan, I hope my other responses answered your post.

William
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 05:10 am
@William,
Not really - because I don't understand what you're saying to them. I understand that what they've said irritates you - I got that- but I don't understand in exactly what way or how those irritated responses would possibly answer my post which in no way implied that I think veterans should not be cared for by the government when they return from serving their country.

Because I DO! And I DO think they deserve the care more actively than someone else who has not served the country or government but has only taken. Many of these people who are veterans have developed their mental illnesses and other disabilities which contribute to their status of 'homeless' specifically because they DID serve their country. They wouldn't have been damaged if they HADN"T served their country. Serving their country in a war is where and how the damage was done.

It's the same as policemen and firemen who have huge elaborate funerals and are buried in special places. I agree with that too. I think anyone who puts themselves in danger and harm's way selflessly for others in the day to day course of their job - deserve special care and recognition when they can no longer serve as they'd selflessly served.

So if you think I don't think that - you're mistaken.
All I said is that I have learned from working with many homeless people, vets and otherwise, that S"OMETIMES it is a choice.

Does this mean I think we shouldn't take better care of the people who are homeless - especially veterans who have given their health for their country - who don't have a place to stay and would like one? No. I think it's a national disgrace that we don't.

I was just answering your question at the end that asked, 'Why is even one single veteran homeless?' and I can tell you why one specific veteran is - he wants to be. And he says he knows a lot like him.
aidan
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 05:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
ci - I've asked you this before and I'll ask you again. If you are going to speak to me, please have the respect to copy the five letters from my post that represent my user name correctly.

If you can't do that - I will assume you're speaking to someone else and will ignore you in the future.

Unfortunately, I find myself compelled to respond to people who seem to be speaking to me. I think it has something to do with the simple and basic respect and manners toward all human beings that my parents cared enough about and took the time to instill in me.

Maybe you could find a little within yourself (respect and manners) to extend to me.

Thank you
William
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 06:09 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Not really - because I don't understand what you're saying to them. I understand that what they've said irritates you - I got that- but I don't understand in exactly what way or how those irritated responses would possibly answer my post which in no way implied that I think veterans should not be cared for by the government when they return from serving their country.

Because I DO! And I DO think they deserve the care more actively than someone else who has not served the country or government but has only taken. Many of these people who are veterans have developed their mental illnesses and other disabilities which contribute to their status of 'homeless' specifically because they DID serve their country. They wouldn't have been damaged if they HADN"T served their country. Serving their country in a war is where and how the damage was done.

It's the same as policemen and firemen who have huge elaborate funerals and are buried in special places. I agree with that too. I think anyone who puts themselves in danger and harm's way selflessly for others in the day to day course of their job - deserve special care and recognition when they can no longer serve as they'd selflessly served.

So if you think I don't think that - you're mistaken.
All I said is that I have learned from working with many homeless people, vets and otherwise, that S"OMETIMES it is a choice.

Does this mean I think we shouldn't take better care of the people who are homeless - especially veterans who have given their health for their country - who don't have a place to stay and would like one? No. I think it's a national disgrace that we don't.

I was just answering your question at the end that asked, 'Why is even one single veteran homeless?' and I can tell you why one specific veteran is - he wants to be. And he says he knows a lot like him.


Aidan, your friend answered the question for you. I did too. "To care for" is charitable and no one wants to be the recipient of pity. NO ONE, especially one who would go to war voluntarily or forced. Your friend should have never been in the position he was. The disabled caring for the disabled? No, I wouldn't like to be in that position either. Let the abled who have never fought in those wars do that. Now that would be due appreciation and those that fought and survived have well EARNED that not even mentioning the families that were left behind for those who did fall.

Not understanding that is what makes me angry.

William
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 10:54 am
@aidan,
I'm not sure what your rant is about; it seems you have myopia of the mind. I have made an observation on your post, and responded accordingly.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 11:06 am
@William,
Sadly, homeless veterans make up about 40%+ of the homeless veteran population here in NYC.

They tend to be weighted down with severely debilitating problems of drug addiction and/or mental illness.

The homeless shelter system in NYC is overcrowded and underfunded.

It seems to be that the VA hospital system is overwhelmed by this problem. They have to deal with 3rd party homeless shelters who for some reason or another can not keep their respective homeless shelters safe from violence and their patrons from using drugs which compounds the homeless person's social and financial standing.

I know the problem is slightly different in Boston. At least from personal experience, the New England Center for Homeless Veterans, is an absolute success story. Yes, I stayed there for a brief period of time myself.

They need to replicate this model of a social reform system at a greater level and transplant it into NYC and many other underserved cities and regions.
http://www.nechv.org/
William
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 06:55 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

Sadly, homeless veterans make up about 40%+ of the homeless veteran population here in NYC.

They tend to be weighted down with severely debilitating problems of drug addiction and/or mental illness.

The homeless shelter system in NYC is overcrowded and underfunded.

It seems to be that the VA hospital system is overwhelmed by this problem. They have to deal with 3rd party homeless shelters who for some reason or another can not keep their respective homeless shelters safe from violence and their patrons from using drugs which compounds the homeless person's social and financial standing.

I know the problem is slightly different in Boston. At least from personal experience, the New England Center for Homeless Veterans, is an absolute success story. Yes, I stayed there for a brief period of time myself.

They need to replicate this model of a social reform system at a greater level and transplant it into NYC and many other underserved cities and regions.
http://www.nechv.org/


Thank you.
As I travel to the VA, en route are vast tenements that at least appear to me mostly vacant. White elephants! Some one who thought they would ‘cash’ in on cheap accommodations. It was an enormous investment gone sour in that no one could afford what the speculator thought was economical and they predicted wrong. tsarstepan, I am reasonably assuredmany such white elephants exist in metropolitan areas because speculations such as this are common. The government could buy these for a wing an a prayer if what I think is true. Anyone who can afford such investments as these, don’t really hurt; they just hate bad investments and losing money. It’s a game to them.

Yes, that could “hold on” until someone comes up with a better idea for those properties, but if you will note, many such properties have been vacant for quite a while now. The real estate industry has always been a sham.

You won’t find the homeless in smaller cities. Hell, many of those don’t even exist anymore; just shells where the economic standard is drugs, using pain killers in a sad barter system among the poor. I know, I live in that environment. Pain pills are not only the most addictive substance there is, it's money too.

Anyone who has followed me in these domains know how I feel about the economics the world has used. IT SUCKS and always has. This is the first time I have ever taken an active part in fixing the system and what better place to start in making sure those innocent and naive who were pawns in wars get what they deservedly have coming to them.

Their loses have been unmeasurable. Most would be surprised how so little they would be satisfied with. Please, don’t anyone talk of charity anymore. Those organizations suck too. Most of those resources never get to the end user. You’ve heard of bureaucratic bullsh*t, surely. How many innocent people are stuck in all that mire. Some of you perhaps? Something about “a piece of the pie”, ha! The homeless could only wish!

Getting possession from the claws of those who have so much, one begins to wonder who is actually insane!? Watching CSPAN gives me a head ache, conversing with the homeless gives me a heart ache. You would be amazed at THEIR constitution. They most assuredly can redefine “resourcefulness”. Yes, they are survivors and there are reasons, physical and metaphysical, why they are that. Yes, being saved has something to so with it mysteriously so. Ha! Not a play on words. Really!

I’m just getting started; amazing for a 62 year old man to say that, huh!? I have left my contact information with those who are afraid to advance my calls to such authoritative people. No one has called me back as yet. That means something is being done or they are ducking under their desks or passing the buck until some one tells them to hang up or shut up. It’s amazing how the truth cannot be denied once one specifically asks for it. I simply ask for answer. “Why should any veteran be homeless?” and the stuttering begins.

It’s really funny actually. When I say “No, that’s not an answer, that’s an excuse”, they have no idea what I am talking about, ha! Duh!!!. I laugh and say it’s not your fault please connect me with one would know that answer and that’s when they say “I can’t! I don’t want to lose my job”. Getting to those so many idiots at the top who rely on the innocent to protect them is truly a senseless phenomena.

I do hope by bringing that question here, others will help and call to any government agency any one can think of and ask the same question. Homeless in America? The land of the free? Please tell me why, especially for those who fought and died to insure that it stayed that way. Was it ever? Yes, research ‘colonial script’. Research also ‘Greenbacks’ and the real reason why Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated. I could humbly be wrong, but those sites make sense to me.

Now I know many of you have more than you need. That doesn’t mean you are greedy, just afraid. There are no “metaphorical” rainy days only consequences to imagine there are.

William





0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 08:25 pm
@William,
I think we should look after veterans, they fought for our freedom, if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be able to walk down the street free, this should be taught to the young as it were I, I have nothing but respect, we owe them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 10:02 pm
@Caroline,
All contemporary presidents have promised to take care of our veterans. A broken promise to our veterans is not acceptable behavior of any president. We expect them to give their life for their country. Surely, we owe them more than just promises.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 10:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

All contemporary presidents have promised to take care of our veterans. A broken promise to our veterans is not acceptable behavior of any president. We expect them to give their life for their country. Surely, we owe them more than just promises.
It makes me so angry the way they are treated, we owe them for everything/big time, like I said we wouldn't be free to do what we're doing now if it wasn't for them, life would be so different under Germany rule if they won the war. Don't forget those who gave their lives so their children would be free to play in the streets. These veterans should be highly respected and taken good care of, how come they are not? Money is it, just being a tightwad? I dunno?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 10:26 pm
@Caroline,
Our government has NEVER set their priorities in the correct order.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Aug, 2010 10:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Our government has NEVER set their priorities in the correct order.
It makes me feel ashamed, what must the veterans think I wonder?
0 Replies
 
 

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