5
   

HOMELESS VETERANS

 
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 02:47 am
@William,
Quote:
"To care for" is charitable and no one wants to be the recipient of pity.

Since when does 'caring' = 'pity'? That's a new one on me.
So, because I care for my mother and the daily realities of her existence - I automatically pity her?
You believe that other societies that 'care' for their veterans and elderly and disabled more reliably than we do in the US, do so out of a sense of pity?

No - I think you're mistaking honor for pity. I honor my mother and that's why I make sure she's cared for. I've never pitied my mother in my life- but I have ALWAYS cared for her and now that she's elderly, I make sure I take care of her if she needs me to.

I can find someone deserving of care without pity ever coming into the picture.

0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 12:08 pm
Hi!

I, once again, must ask, "Why do you perceive servicepeople to be, in some deluded way, more important than everyone else"?
This is clearly an american issue, so perhaps I have no place in your ideals, but the rest of us - There is an exterior to the US, you know - See people as EQUAL.
So why are some (IYO) more important than others? You're primarily a christian-based societal system, one which would find your behaviour deplorable, at least.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SELFLESS ACT, by the way.

Have a nice day!
Mark...
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 12:41 pm
@mark noble,
I disagree there are selfless acts, people sacrifice for others.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 12:51 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Why do you perceive servicepeople to be, in some deluded way, more important than everyone else"?

I don't perceive them to be more important than everyone else. But I do perceive them to be more deserving of governmental intervention in terms of their care if they have sacrificed their health for the sake of my safety and freedoms.

I feel the same way about cops and firemen. If a person is willing to sacrifice his or her life saving the life of my family or anyone elses family and puts that life on the line on a daily basis - I think they should be honored for that and have that selflessness and courage recognized.

And maybe it is a particularly American sentiment. In America, if you don't work, you don't get paid (generally). There is no dole for healthy people who are able to work but choose not to.
If I work and get paid, say as an Insurance salesperson, but never sacrifice my life or health on the job - and then there are other people who work and get paid the same as me, or maybe even less than me who are putting themselves in harm's way for my safety or freedom and may even sacrifice their very lives - I think it's only fair that compensation be made to them either when they are hurt or wounded so they can no longer work in that job - or if they are killed - compensation be made to the family members they leave behind.

I look at these people as heroes. They should be treated as such.
Most people don't and wouldn't choose to take the risks that they take on a daily basis for the sake of other people.

mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:18 pm
@aidan,
Hi Aidan!

Do They do what they do for FREE?

Kind regards!
Mark...
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:19 pm
@mark noble,
And would they consider doing it without pay, do you think?
Caroline
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:34 pm
@mark noble,
Dont you mean without the meagre pay?
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:59 pm
@mark noble,
Some people do do it without pay. Some small towns in America only have volunteer fire and ambulance services- everyone who is called out to respond to a fire or ride the ambulance as first responders to an accident are volunteers.

But that's not the point. The point is that as a teacher - I'm a public servant. So is a cop. Our rates of pay are probably very similar. I would think that soldiers are paid even less.
The odds are better for me that I will go home healthy and whole at the end of the day than they are for either the cop or the soldier. I think that sort of dedication to the safety of the public while putting your own at risk is worthy of recognition.

And if you are hurt or wounded on the job so that you cannot work and support yourself, yes, I feel you are more deserving of support than someone who hasn't given anything and has only ever taken.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 02:30 pm
@aidan,
aiden, I believe that most cops do not live under danger as most would have us believe. Most cops attend to crimes already committed - not while it's in progress.

Here are the stats for the first six months of this year:
Quote:
Preliminary NLEOMF statistics show that 87 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty between January 1 and June 30, 2010.


The total number of Police Officers in 2006:
Quote:

Police officers
2006 654,000


Now, tell me how "dangerous" a police officer's job is?

To put the number of police fatalities compared to auto fatalities in 2009, which was over 33,000, I doubt very much police officer's jobs are as dangerous as they would promote themselves to be.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811291.PDF

I also believe there are some pockets around the country - mostly in big cities - where their jobs might be more dangerous than the average.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Firefighters risks there lives and they get paid pittance.
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 03:15 pm
@Caroline,
Has any government in the U.S ever supplied some sort of home situation for veterans who find themselves without one? Following any war?
Khethil
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 03:31 pm
@Pemerson,
Pemerson wrote:
Has any government in the U.S ever supplied some sort of home situation for veterans who find themselves without one? Following any war?

Not to my knowledge, we're pretty much left to our own.

The thing is, veterans have varying levels of benefits (some so sparce, you probably couldn't justifiably call them that). Those that go the full 20+ years get a retirement, but it's not much and generally not nearly enough to live on. The predominant mindset is that if the government were to provide more, the crowds screaming about hand-outs would oust them from office.

It's part of the mentality of this country: If you served in a volunteer force, most simply relinquish any sort of responsibility by saying, "... they chose to serve, they can just live with it". Those maimed and disabled by our wars often don't get much of a disability benefit either. The scores we have coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan will be patched up (somewhat) and put out the door. That's just what the U.S. does.

For my part, its just part and parcel to the world I know. There is the way I think things outta be and the way they are; and the way this subject is that most veterans simply get reinserted into the mix, for better or worse.

Thanks
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 03:50 pm
@Khethil,
At least the situation (read about it in yesterday's news) is being discussed. I'd just bet politicians would sit up and listen if more of them would run for office with an idea of taking care of homeless veterans.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 04:05 pm
@Pemerson,
Delete this post.
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 04:12 pm
@Caroline,
Which post do you want me to delete?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 04:35 pm
@Pemerson,
Not you lol, but very funny.
0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Aug, 2010 04:17 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

Pemerson wrote:
Has any government in the U.S ever supplied some sort of home situation for veterans who find themselves without one? Following any war?

Not to my knowledge, we're pretty much left to our own.

The thing is, veterans have varying levels of benefits (some so sparce, you probably couldn't justifiably call them that). Those that go the full 20+ years get a retirement, but it's not much and generally not nearly enough to live on. The predominant mindset is that if the government were to provide more, the crowds screaming about hand-outs would oust them from office.

It's part of the mentality of this country: If you served in a volunteer force, most simply relinquish any sort of responsibility by saying, "... they chose to serve, they can just live with it". Those maimed and disabled by our wars often don't get much of a disability benefit either. The scores we have coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan will be patched up (somewhat) and put out the door. That's just what the U.S. does.

For my part, its just part and parcel to the world I know. There is the way I think things outta be and the way they are; and the way this subject is that most veterans simply get reinserted into the mix, for better or worse.

Thanks



Thank you khethil for steering the topic back on track. Erroneous analogies such a firemen and policemen DO have homes. Yes, they have uniforms as soldiers do and yes there are many who want the recognition such a uniform gives them. Homeless veterans? Recognition? Here are some, very much more important things, politicians do recognize:

$107,000 to study the sex life of the Japanese quail.
$1.2 million to study the breeding habits of the woodchuck.
$150,000 to study the Hatfield-McCoy feud.
$84,000 to find out why people fall in love.
$1 million to study why people don't ride bikes to work.
$19 million to examine gas emissions from cow flatulence.
$144,000 to see if pigeons follow human economic laws.
Funds to study the cause of rudeness on tennis courts and examine smiling patterns in bowling alleys.
$219,000 to teach college students how to watch television.
$2 million to construct an ancient Hawaiian canoe.
$20 million for a demonstration project to build wooden bridges.
$160,000 to study if you can hex an opponent by drawing an X on his chest.
$800,000 for a restroom on Mt. McKinley.
$100,000 to study how to avoid falling spacecraft.
$16,000 to study the operation of the komungo, a Korean stringed instrument.
$1 million to preserve a sewer in Trenton, NJ, as a historic monument.
$6,000 for a document on Worcestershire sauce.
$10,000 to study the effect of naval communications on a bull's potency.
$100,000 to research soybean-based ink.
$1 million for a Seafood Consumer Center.
$57,000 spent by the Executive Branch for gold-embossed playing cards on Air Force Two.
Total: $ 45,980,000

$3.1 million to convert a ferry boat into a crab restaurant in Baltimore.
$6.4 million for a Bavarian ski resort in Kellogg, Idaho.
$13 million to repair a privately owned dam in South Carolina.
$4.3 million for a privately owned museum in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.
$11 million for a private pleasure boat harbor in Cleveland.
$6 million to repair tracks owned by the Soo Railroad Line.
$320,000 to purchase President McKinley's mother-in-law's house. Funds to rehabilitate the South Carolina mansion of Charles Pickney, a Framer of the Constitution, even though the house was built after he died.
$2.7 million for a catfish farm in Arkansas.
$3 million for private parking garages in Chicago.
$500,000 to build a replica of the Great Pyramid of Egypt in Indiana.
$850,000 for a bicycle path in Macomb County, Michigan.
$10 million for an access ramp in a privately owned stadium in Milwaukee.
$1.8 million for an engineering study to convert Biscayne Boulevard in Miami into an "Exotic Garden."
$13 million for an industrial theme park in Pennsylvania.
$500,000 for a museum to honor former Secretary of State Cordell Hull.
$33 million to pump sand onto the private beaches of Miami hotels.
Total: $109,470,000

$6 million to upgrade the two-block long Senate subway.
$350,000 to renovate the House Beauty Salon.
$250,000 to study TV lighting in the Senate meeting rooms.
$130,000 for a Congressional video-conferencing project.
Total:
$6,730,000
$109,470,000
$ 45,980,000
$162,180,000


These are just the most current examples. If anyone wants to know more, browse “pork barrel spending examples” and all those links. “Hot links”, ha!

I used the term “idiots at the top” and I also started a topic “RESPONSIBILITY” defining many of those so called idiots and why I said many in authority cannot be contacted and say “just hang up or shut up” when confronted with one who wanted to know the truth who asked a simple question, LIKE I DID. “Why should any veteran be homeless?” There is absolutely nothing difficult to understand about that particular question. Now are you, those of you here in these United States, so very proud or your ELECTED government OFFICIALS!?

Caroline you live in England and it’s term is “rough sleepers”, right!? Now that would be someone having a “nightmare” too, huh! Now no one knows what the homeless dream about when the lay down for the night, do they. Most don’t even care that they do exist. Communicating with them is not easy either because they do exist in there own “other” world and they have learned more than most how to survive until they are eventually found dead huddled in a corner somewhere. Politicians build bridges over those ghettos; out of sight, out of mind. Just who is insane here!? Just who is out of mind?

Now there is a difference in the homeless and the beggars, panhandlers and liars who are very smart. Now they manipulate those caught up in the matrix or the system and tell the most exquisite lies about a totally fictitious occurrence appealing to guilt who, by appearances, have more. Those are not homeless people. The homeless never panhandle. The would rather die that ask for help. That’s why they are so easily overlooked, they rarely make a fuss. It’s easy to just ignore them. Most veterans are that, including the homeless ones.

That even have schools in New York City that teach how to become a “panhandler”. Ha, no better place to have such a school. I survived there for almost a day once and so very glad I found my way out. I could be mistaken but I think I told of that day once. Talk about living in zombie land (dead from the neck up), damn. Oh, well, that’s probably a subject for another topic.

After being here in this domain, and observing some of the dilemmas some feel are important, many of those zombies do have computers too. Maybe one day they will understand they do have brains and will not need to consume those of others to survive. And you thought a zombie was a fictional monster. Ha! Naw, the do exist, really! Please, any of you who do take that personal; don’t, please! Speaking of zombies who suck out brains...............

http://www.lifesitenews.com/abortiontypes/

If anyone has the brains capable enough to read and understand it. Some are called doctors too. Abortion is considered a “hot topic”. That’s a topic that most don’t want to discuss and when that topic IS discuss brainless people just would defend it or just ignore it. No one wants to know the truth of why that is........................either. A woman’s choice? My ass. That’s the most precious thing she is more that willing to do. Of course in an ideal situation and I will admit this situation is FAR FROM IT. Going in the WRONG direction comes go mind. Big time.


You don’t have to be physically dead to walk the street. The veteran who didn’t die in war, did die when they got back to that home they went to die for. Yes, the worms crawl in and they crawl out, and you don’t have to be dead to know what that means; some are snakes! I promise you the homeless are more alive than most in authority ever could be.

You see, “cheerful giver” and “being thankful” have no meaning to so many. Most in authority preach to the choir; those who can feather their nest, with little thought to that ground that support the roots of the tree. Yes, those roots do decay in any context if inequity continues to exist. Economic equilibrium as it stands now, my ass.

Thanks Khethil for staying on topic and please help me “make a fuss” and call as many as you can and ask the same question. There is no reason for anyone not to have a home. If you do please be prepared for the standard stuttering. “Let me take your number and ‘some one’ will get back in touch with you”, ha! YOU’LL grow roots before that happens. In this particular case PERSISTENCE is a must; but of course only those who DO have the time can do that, and I do. Here’s one number provided by the FEDERAL BENEFITS FOR VETERANS handbook under the subtitle HOMELESS VETERANS. 877 424 3838 and ask that so simple question.

The first time I called the person sent me to a suicide prevention hot line by mistake. You should have heard the crap he began to spew before he knew he had been reached by error. Ha! He asked who referred me to him? I asked what difference does that make? Can you answer the question? If not connect me with someone who can!

Like I said it takes persistence. Any one who helps me here will find that is how it will be all the way up the pyramid to that watchful eye at the top. Unfortunately the one that is there now is blind and there are a lot of “seeing eye dogs” to protect them.......................too. I am not speaking of anyone in particular. That’s just how the system miserably works today. The blind leading the blind.

William

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Aug, 2010 10:47 am
@William,
William, Our government whether represented by the two major parties is a huge failure, because they have never learned to spend money wisely. You would think that the people who go into politics are from the class of the smartest and brightest, but it shows through history that they are some of the dumbest animals on earth. They do not understand priorities, nor how to live within their means.

Look at all the games the Secretary of Defense is playing with "cutting costs." It's a sham, and instigated for political purposes, and not real cuts in the cost of "defense." All one needs to do is compare the cost of defense to our GDP and/or tax revenues - and the continued increase in our national debt.

We're the only country spending money on "defense," to police the world. Just plain stupid!
0 Replies
 
 

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