5
   

What Chelsea Clinton's Wedding Says About Religious Syncretism

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:30 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

Miller wrote:
If the wife was sincere, wouldn't she have converted to Judaism?


Her children still wouldn't be Jewish, so there wouldn't be much point.

They can be raised culturally Jewish, but they won't be Jewish.


Nyet! If a woman converts by Orthodox standards to Judaism, her children are Jewish, since she is then Jewish by Orthodox standards.



In the particular Orthodox Jewish communities I have experience with, they do not accept conversion by women as making their children Jewish. The women will be Jewish, their children will not.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:34 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
who are you talking about here, hillary or chelsea?
Chelsea...I pretty much agree with the comments, she had a few good years in her mid twenties but she is not aging well at all. Thinking primarily about what her face is doing. It might be diet related, as she is on a super restricted diet and has been for a long time. There was lots of buzz about how she almost banished meat from the wedding, and how it was almost completely vegan and gluten free.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
guess i haven't really seen her in a few years, and i didn't see any coverage of the wedding (heard it in the background on the news)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:45 pm
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2010/08/03/08012010_01clinton_photo2__1280864828_5308.jpg

looks like a nice upper middle class wedding group

a bit tasteful

I was hoping to find photos of something a bit over the top
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:48 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
looks like a nice upper middle class wedding group
I was looking for wedding pics with his parents in them...did not find a single one.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:50 pm
@ehBeth,
I cannot pontificate on this. My knowledge is less than universal, plus Jews, I thought, do not all march to the beat of the same drummer, so to speak.

djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 07:20 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
plus Jews, I thought, do not all march to the beat of the same drummer


Pa-Rumpa Pum Pum Razz
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:40 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
looks like a nice upper middle class wedding group
I was looking for wedding pics with his parents in them...did not find a single one.


Chelsea's grandmother's photo was on TV today. But...nothing from the groom's parents.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:45 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Foofie wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

Miller wrote:
If the wife was sincere, wouldn't she have converted to Judaism?


Her children still wouldn't be Jewish, so there wouldn't be much point.

They can be raised culturally Jewish, but they won't be Jewish.


Nyet! If a woman converts by Orthodox standards to Judaism, her children are Jewish, since she is then Jewish by Orthodox standards.



In the particular Orthodox Jewish communities I have experience with, they do not accept conversion by women as making their children Jewish. The women will be Jewish, their children will not.



Which particular Orthodox Jewish communities are you talking about?
Seems like a strange thing to say considering that Orthodox male Rabbis are now involved in the US with the ordination of female Orthodox Rabbis.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:48 am
Quote:
Jewish by Orthodox standards


To convert to Judaism according to Orthodox standards ( which are also recognized in Israel ) the gentile woman in question must study intensely Judaism for 6-12 months under the guidance of a Rabbi and then be submerged in a mikveh. Without the latter step, conversion has not taken place.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:56 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I do not see why religion may be more important to a male, than a female, in a relationship
He regularly attends his church, from what I can see she rarely/never does hers. Friends suspected that she might convert, said that there was zero chance that he would.


Libraries are for the literate.


If libraries are only for the literate, and most libraries in the US are inviting grounds for pedophiles seeking little kids, what does that say about the literacy assoicated with libraries?
Miller
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:59 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Miller wrote:
If the wife was sincere, wouldn't she have converted to Judaism?


Her children still wouldn't be Jewish, so there wouldn't be much point.

They can be raised culturally Jewish, but they won't be Jewish.


Wrong. Gentile women convert to Judaism when marrying a Jewish male, so that the kids will be Jewish, because their mother is also Jewish. As far as the cultural aspect, that's secondary to the conversion aspect.

Most, if not all US Conservative and Orthodox Rabbis insist on a conversion of the gentile, before a marriage can take place.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 04:40 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Foofie wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I do not see why religion may be more important to a male, than a female, in a relationship
He regularly attends his church, from what I can see she rarely/never does hers. Friends suspected that she might convert, said that there was zero chance that he would.


Libraries are for the literate.


If libraries are only for the literate, and most libraries in the US are inviting grounds for pedophiles seeking little kids, what does that say about the literacy assoicated with libraries?


"Inviting grounds for pedophiles"? I take books out from libraries. I am not familiar with your statement. Books are too expensive these days to buy them, for me.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 04:44 pm
@ehBeth,
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2010/08/03/08012010_01clinton_photo2__1280864828_5308.jpg

oof, she needs to put a bit of the chub back on, her face doesn't do thin very well, plus let that hair down, i loved her curly mess of a hair do
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 04:47 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
she needs to put a bit of the chub back on, her face doesn't do thin very well,
that will not help much...right around 30 yo is when you can tell if a woman will age well or not. Chelsea is a not.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 04:51 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

Miller wrote:
If the wife was sincere, wouldn't she have converted to Judaism?


Her children still wouldn't be Jewish, so there wouldn't be much point.

They can be raised culturally Jewish, but they won't be Jewish.


Wrong. Gentile women convert to Judaism when marrying a Jewish male, so that the kids will be Jewish, because their mother is also Jewish. As far as the cultural aspect, that's secondary to the conversion aspect.

Most, if not all US Conservative and Orthodox Rabbis insist on a conversion of the gentile, before a marriage can take place.


http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

All the mixing, that the above link implies, reflects conversions? Also, note that the matrilineal descent seems to come from a local female for eastern European Jews. The theory, I read elsewhere, is that Ashkenazim are often descended from Jewish males from the Middle East that were setting up a "trading post," and the younger males married local women.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 05:57 pm
@Miller,
Quote:
Which particular Orthodox Jewish communities are you talking about?
Seems like a strange thing to say considering that Orthodox male Rabbis are now involved in the US with the ordination of female Orthodox Rabbis.


Apples and oranges
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 05:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
All women age more gracefully than men. As a 63 year old who is asked whether I am 50 yet, believe me!
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:30 pm
People's aging varies; to me it isn't tied to being male or female.

The whole 'looks' aspect to the talk of this wedding is weird to me.
As far as Chelsea and her interest in thinness, this may be a passing thing or a lifetime concern, and of course, not our business.

I'm interested in the conversation, though, about who is considered jewish or not, and by whom. I can see Foofie's take on this, but am interested in the fine points for the very religious jews, and for those of other levels of observance, if they differ.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 07:37 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

...I'm interested in the conversation, though, about who is considered jewish or not, and by whom. I can see Foofie's take on this, but am interested in the fine points for the very religious jews, and for those of other levels of observance, if they differ.


It is simple math; just subtract the Gentiles. Include Mormons as Gentiles, even though they believe that non-Mormons are Gentiles. As Jimmy Durante had said, "Everyone wants to get into the act!"

0 Replies
 
 

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