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Bleeding From Medications Given While in Hospital: Acceptable?

 
 
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 05:41 pm
My mother in law has been in a local hospital, going from there to rehab and back to the hospital, and repeating, for many weeks. In a recent development, she has had to have two transfusions. My wife and her sisters have noted blood in her urine. The doctor tells them she is doing fine. When asked about the bloody urine, he seems uninformed. Later, it is put out that the medication is all that's causing her to bleed. Then, the next morning, the doctor signs her out and wants her returned to rehab. The sister on the scene refuses to sign her out. "She is not leaving here, bleeding like that."

A few weeks ago, the family was asked to begin paying the hospital $200 per day. None of us could agree to that. I am wondering if they have decided to withhold further treatment. Does anybody know of an acceptable situation, in which a patient is allowed to bleed like that?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 1,247 • Replies: 17
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 05:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
On weekends doctors on duty may be only interns.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 05:50 pm
@talk72000,
I am referring to week days.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 05:58 pm
@edgarblythe,
Then get a second opinion from a reputable doctor. If the doctor indicates malpractice then consult a lawyer but I don't know if the new healthcare bill prevents patients from suing their doctors?
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 06:06 pm
Bloody urine and he seemed uninformed? That's not right. Was the medication a blood thinner?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 06:26 pm
@edgarblythe,
What medications was she being given? Knowing what medications she was given will help inform you as to whether blood in the urine is a side effect.

Which doctor is it that seemed uninformed about blood in the urine, her primary doctor at the hospital, a doctor doing rounds on a shift, a doctor at the rehab?

Why was she moved from the rehab to the hospital? What was the medical situation that required hospitalization?

In the last few months of my dad's life at a nursing home/rehab, we made use of the state hospice services to be his advocate. Does Texas have such a service?

Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 06:29 pm
@Butrflynet,
Looks like there are a few in Houston.

http://www.houstonhospice.org/site/c.klIYIhNZJyE/b.5001649/k.BF34/Home.htm

Here's a list of their satelite offices that may be nearer to you:

http://www.tnpha.org/locate.php?mode=indvid&hospice_number=9
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 07:21 pm
@Butrflynet,
They would be an advocate in a situation like this?

When a nurse told my sister in law that she could not give her any information, she had the nurse call in a doctor. This is the one who was uninformed. I don't know if he is the same doctor that was there today. It gets a bit confusing, because the sisters and a brother rotate visiting days to afford each some relief. The doctor that tried to release her today about had to be the primary doc. I get my information second hand.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 07:59 pm
@edgarblythe,
http://www.houstonhospice.org/site/c.klIYIhNZJyE/b.5001799/k.6379/Patient__Family_Services.htm

Quote:
Patient Services
When a patient with a severe illness decides that curative measures are no longer appropriate or effective, the option of hospice care is a compassionate, dignified and cost-effective end-of-life care option. When possible, the patient can receive treatment within his or her own home. The hospice team who visits the patient on a regular basis consists of a nurse, hospice aide, social worker, volunteer and chaplain. Staff physicians are consulted and are available when necessary.

The essence of Houston Hospice care is:

* quality of life
* treatment of the patient, not the disease
* the provision of palliative (the alleviation of pain) treatment
* the family as the "unit of care," not simply the patient
* 24 hours a day, 7 days a week available help from the hospice nurses and physicians

Following assessments in the areas of physical pain, emotional needs, spiritual issues, legal concerns and practical arrangements, the patient, family and physician approve a plan of care. Being involved in making the plan helps patients and families face the last stages of life more comfortably and confidently.

Patient care is provided by Houston Hospice in the home, in a nursing home or residential facility or in the Margaret Cullen Marshall Hospice Care Center which is located in the Texas Medical Center.

There are four levels of care that are provided by hospices in the United States. Every patient receiving hospice services will be on one of these four levels. A hospice patient can move from one level to another and back, depending on the services required to fulfill his or her needs. The need of the patient will determine their individual level of care. These four levels are:

* Routine Home Care – patient at home with symptoms controlled
* Continuous Nursing Care at Home – patient at home with uncontrolled symptoms
* Inpatient Care – patient in facility with uncontrolled symptoms
* Respite Care – patient at facility with symptoms controlled


http://www.houstonhospice.org/site/c.klIYIhNZJyE/b.5001785/k.8162/Frequently_Asked_Questions.htm

Quote:
When is Hospice appropriate?

Hospice care becomes an alternative when a patient has reached the last phases of a terminal illness, and has been given a prognosis of six months or less. It can also be an alternative following the discontinuation of treatment, an accident or the sudden onset of a catastrophic illness. The subject can be addressed at any time during the illness, as physician and patient discuss treatment options. When a patient chooses hospice, the decision to give up curative measures is made in favor of comfort care, focusing on pain management and symptom control, psychosocial support for both patient and family and ancillary services that lessen the burden of illness and caregiving.

Should I wait for our physician to bring up the subject of hospice, or can I raise it first?

The decision to choose hospice should be made by patient and family with the input of a physician. Open and honest discussion about treatment options should be held throughout the course of the illness. If a patient or family feels that a physician is reluctant to discuss hospice care, it is always appropriate for one or the other to approach the subject.

What does the admissions process involve?

The admissions process involves an interview with an admissions nurse to discuss what the patient and family can expect from Houston Hospice, how care is provided, services available and information on illness and its effects that help prepare the family for the coming days. Medicare, Medicaid and/or other available benefits will be discussed, although Houston Hospice never denies treatment based on a patient's ability to pay for services.

Where is hospice care provided?

Houston Hospice provides the majority of its care in a patient's home, with family and friends acting as caregivers. If there is no residence, the agency can furnish care in nursing homes, or other types of residential facilities in their own communities. If a patient requires inpatient care in order to address severe symptoms or to provide respite for a caregiver, Houston Hospice has contracts with hospitals throughout its service area as well as in its the Margaret Cullen Marshall Hospice Care Center located in the Texas Medical Center.

What assistance does hospice provide in the patient's home?

Houston Hospice patients are cared for by a team of doctors, nurses, social workers, hospice aides, non-denominational chaplains, therapists and trained volunteers.

How do we pay for hospice care?

Houston Hospice is a Medicare and Medicaid certified hospice, and has relationships with a number of managed care companies. Arrangements may be negotiated to meet specific patient's needs with individual insurance case managers. Charity funds may be available for part or all care if a patient qualifies based on a Houston Hospice financial assessment. No patient is denied services based on his or her ability to pay.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 08:04 pm
@Butrflynet,
Another resource is your state ombudsman service. Here's a list of ombudsmen from the Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services:

http://www.dads.state.tx.us/contact/aaa.cfm
0 Replies
 
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 08:30 pm
A question to ask is: did she have a fever? So a urinary tract infection. Are further tests warranted to rule out an abnormality in her urinary tract? One assumes the doctor seeking to discharge her would know the answers there. As was said a patient advocate would be helpful.

If it was my mother, I'd look at it this way: a little blood in urine can look like a lot because it all turns red. Active bleeding is a different story... there would be clots in it. Not only the doctors, but the nurses would all have to be clueless to send her out that way. A clear explanation from the doctor about how the medication causes bleeding, assurance that other possibilities have been examined, and a clear understanding of when to expect the bleeding to stop would prompt me to accept the discharge. Then monitor the situation and if it doesn't stop according to schedule, a visit to a regular doctor would be indicated.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 10:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
I don't know if it helps with your question, but I spent a few weeks in a rehab hospital. The emphasis was on physical therapy, not medical treatment. If she needs much beyond routine medication, and it sounds like she does) it is not the place for her.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 03:59 pm
Now they explain it this way: She has an aneurysm on her kidney. They had given her drugs to take care of it and had given positive reports. Now, the doctor claims he intends to surgically fix it, but later on. For now, wants to send her to rehab. The sister that is taking charge told the doctor she will not take her out of the hospital before the surgery gets done. So, now, we wait for the next move.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
aneurysm on kidney?

(I probably don't know enough to ask)
margo
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:40 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

Then get a second opinion from a reputable doctor. If the doctor indicates malpractice then consult a lawyer but I don't know if the new healthcare bill prevents patients from suing their doctors?


Interesting American response.

Consider malpractice immediately....don't bother to find out the real problem!
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:42 pm
@edgarblythe,
Renal Artery Aneurysm
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:48 pm
@ossobuco,
At first, I hear aneurysm. Now it's said to be a cyst.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:50 pm
@edgarblythe,
Tomorrow, I may tell you something else. I get all this second hand, through mrs edgarblythe.
0 Replies
 
 

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